There is no ancient AR so that is the reason to go slightly offtopic 
I edited my post, at least I included something about the ancient weapons.
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In the first sentence I was referring to the AR + Armor break combo. In the other sentence, I was referring to a dual-classed assault soldier having access to the weapon classes of the other class he has. Mostly I end up using the other class type, unless it’s situational.
All in all the deimos is the best AR of the first 3 for me. After enemy armor though, it could have an upgrade. Then enemies later get more health anyway and since it would not have shred, all would be good. We would have the piranha as a sidegrade and maybe an upgrade to the Ares as another sidegrade, with more shred instead of more piercing/higher damage. This would be AR’s “tier 2”. This “tier 2” would not turn “tier 1” useless as the piranha doesn’t. It’s just a bit better against evolved enemies, and still with different approaches. It would work for the enemies too, giving an advance path for enemy SYN soldiers (and also more paths for the tritons).
After 100 posts, it’s really difficult to stay on topic. You’re completely right though.
Since I already discuss with you guys for some time now and even know gameplay details about some of you, I’ll just paraphrase MadSkunky’s cynical response:
PS: I have no place in this topic, I haven’t even used ancient weapons yet. Truly sorry.
So I don’t misunderstood you, but then I have one question:
In which class you dual class your Assault that you mostly use the other class type weapon instead of his AR?
Without (ab)using skills of course, because you will compare base weapons by itself …
I’ll PM you as to not go off-topic anymore 
Someone should get this back on-topic or else it’ll die… so I’ll also use your cue: what would you guys propose for an ancient AR? Using the new material properties… that made a different use from current ARs. Any ideas?
None, the Shardgun is already enough and makes the Piranha almost obsolete. At least the Daimos has its range for now very rare situations.
And this is no joke.
See? I’ve no place here 
I haven’t seen the shardgun yet. I thought it was a shotgun. Does it have enough range to be used as an AR?
14 range, 15 piercing, 25 damage, 15 pallets per shot. Even if you only hit 50% it tops the Piranha, so range comparison is no real issue with this.
Edit: And yes, it is a shotgun … with range
Well, if it counted as a new tier, and most weapons had a new tier, then it would be OK (disregarding balance issues). I don’t understand these upgrades for just a few weapons…
I wanted to let you know I copied your methodology down and (printed it out) and played the game through the steps outlined in your post. I had a really hard time, as it’s not my playstyle and far, far more aggressive than I am when I play games.
But I did manage it, give or take an extra week and a half lol
It was an interesting experience for me, for sure - but here’s the thing…I didn’t really have much fun or enjoy playing like that. For me, it almost felt like work to play the game to push and eek out every bit I can get done in the shortest amount of time possible.
I’m envious of people who can do that and have fun doing it, I wish I could…but I guess I’ll have to settle for my ultra-casual playstyle.
and on that note, I didn’t find the Ancient weapons (the ones I could play with, some were locked behind bugged out quests) OP. They were clear upgrades compared to Faction equipment, but there were still evolved MOBs that could kill soldiers who were armed with them.
but I also didn’t play with any broken class combinations and I never managed to do the whole ‘rapid clearance of the whole map’ thing I’ve read about.
but I had fun with the ancient weapons…I really wish there were others to play around with. I did NOT have fun having to build 3 extra planes or how randomly weird it seemed that the processing plants were so hard to find. I had to send probes out to places I had already sent probes out to and they didn’t appear the first time. But the system is way overly complex.
Also towards the time of the last mission, the sheer amount of nests, lairs and citadels that popped up kept me way to busy to do much else…I didn’t find that very fun either (but that may just be me). The part being they were just tedious with there being so many appearing so rapidly. I was still barely in the 40% margin on live people, so the clock wasn’t run down too much.
But, overall, it was an okay experience. But I’m not sure how much replay value it has as far as I am concerned, with the tedious and long and convoluted the road was. And that’s saying something as I have about 2.5k hours under all my x-com games lol
thanks
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This is what playing to min-max is like… some people like it - I do, although not really optimal as I don’t go out of my way searching for better tactics, I just go along trying to figure it out on my own.
However there’s then one other way to play which is to abuse broken game mechanics to min-max beyond what the game should let you - effectively breaking game economy for instance (best current examples are raids and trade). This usually leads to a lot of work (dozens of raid missions or dozens of trade routes) and really feels like a chore instead of a game. I don’t play like that, I create self-restraints when I see a broken mechanic that can be abused.
Also, I feel the same about game “achievements” in general - I like completing some, but I ignore most that are just a big chore than a real achievement. It’s just a waste of real-life time to only mark a checkbox.
I play pretty casually. If it’s too hard or ends up being too time-consuming I stop playing. I used to play games harder and more aggressively than I do these days, but I’ve gotten older and I have 8 cats and a dog that provide a lot of distraction. lol.
You’re right - people play the game how they enjoy it and I don’t take any issue with that. I don’t even take issue with them finding ways to exploit the system to get ahead. I just don’t want to see everything nerfed or cool features (like multi-classing) destroyed because people are creative and can always find ways to abuse or beat systems.
I’m not big on achievements either. Some are cool, but I never put myself out over trying to get them.
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Wow fails to capture my astonishment. I’m in Late Game again, and the highest I’ve seen is 5. Probably it’s me doing, or not doing something, to kick the level up for recruits. 
I have to agree that the game tends to suck you into the Time Warp of Just one more mission. Which is something that drives a lot of Casual Players crazy, because of personal time constraints. But here again, it is up to the player, to find that Happy Middle Ground of entertainment.
This kind of things could be good if you feel that you improve in the game with time. I mean, it’s like all the 1 more turn games like Civilization or Heroes series… At those games, with every turn, you get more something. You win something. You get something new. I tried to explain this with tier system but some people does not like that here. But this is a fact for more normal players, who plays for fun and does not like suffering…
At X-Com games, you just play the game to get more of everything… you want more aliens, tougher aliens, you want more items to collect, you want to research more things as aliens get more, you manufacture new weapons, armors, gadgets, you can more planes, you get more tougher ufos and you finish the game…
Here… you fight… with mostly same aliens, with same weapons, with totally same armors… your enemies are mostly humans or humanoids… you try to get a little resources to make the same weapon and same armor for your soldiers… you go mission to mission mostly for saving people, for factions and get resources to do the same… Most of the researches comes from humans again and most of them are useless as they are giving you some bonuses here and there… sometimes you get new weapons but those are mostly tactical gimmicks which you will use maybe 1-2 times per mission if you remember you got them at first place… LotA tried to give some weapons but failed as type and annoying to get…
Result, you just don’t get the force to play one more turn as you play… fun becomes boredom… game becomes work… and you stop to play…
As I said some pro players here just do not like this type of standard x-com game play at a x-com game and they are fine with what they have… there is no problem about this but they need to understand that, it’s not enough for x-com players. You could find your type of xcom at PP, but it’s not a X-com we played for years… so as I could play any xcom games for hours, I just alt-f4 PP after 3-4 missions…
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You also have to at least (try) to understand that there are players who don’t see useless equipment as “fun”. Others have already answered or argued this better here, but what is triggered by the “tier” system is nothing more than senseless clicking around to exchange all weapons and armor, more clicking around to scrap the “old” tier equipment. More adaptation of the opponent to the next “tier” level and thus sudden “tier” increases in difficulty and so on … no fun
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I only see one possibility:
If the game delayed access to faction equipment a little. For example it might be more difficult to reach 50% or the factions only give their technology “piecemeal” at 50%, 55%, 60%, … And even the PP equipment could only be researched little by little (but before the factions ), so that the beginning only takes place with independent equipment. Then every further step would be “something new” and thus a step forward. This could then be extended to the end game. But still the horizontal or light tier system should be retained. This is what PP did differently and better!
I don’t mind finding happy middle grounds when I can.
That’s why I will sometimes use mods and such on repeated playthroughs of various games to automate or make some things work more quickly/efficiently.
At the same time though, for a player to find that happy middle ground in the game - it has to be put there in the first place.
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They have something like this in their focus, look here: Support — Phoenix Point
Especially this part:
Just vote it up, so they focus even more 
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I do not consider myself a Pro Gamer. But I thoroughly enjoy overcoming a games Shortcomings & Challenges. Think of it as a Self Improvement Lesson if you can. Where everything you do in your life, should be a learning moment, of one type or another.
As in all things I have done, over my long life. I lean towards Constructive Criticism, of things I do not like, and those that I see room for improvement in. Granted this is a personal taste kind of thing. But it is something I feel every person on the planet should do as well. Imagine the changes that We the User/Buyer/Player could effect in all things, if we all did that one thing? 
As this is a better idea then we have, it does not change that you will use the NJ heavy armor and Synd Sniper armor for whole game as the assault armors are totally useless as they do not protect the user and not give a damn stat which does matter…
Still you will use a Deceptor as machinegun, a laser or AP assault rifle or cannon or armor… there is not enough things to extended… you need an assault rifle, there is laser one… how can you extend more? 2 week later? Armors as same… as you don’t have tier system, there is nothing to extend after first week.
I respect horizontal approach, but light tier system is very weak. PP tried to make it better but it’s far for being enough to be better.
You are one of them and we can’t discuss this with you for this reason as we want different games. Our discussion will take forever as we do not want the same final result. And of course I would or can’t or should not force you to like what I like.
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