DLC Legacy of the Ancients does not integrate well into the main campaign

Hi,

I made a canny post regarding the DLc integration into the main campaign. I am curious however what the rest of you think about it.

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I would keep existing system up to discovering mine. Would put defense there, its logical. After that should self extract, unless attacked by aliens.

Further simplification would be more fight- discovery missions until knowledge of mines and archeological building is possible, and then auto extract with strong new ancient race attacking.

While new ancient enemies are strong and heavy I kind of dont feel they are being enough used in game.

I agree that this DLC does not integrate well with the main campaign. But not necessarily because of the reasons given in linked post.

The note “The lengths you have to go to manufacture the weapons however is tedious and I asked myself if it is even worth the risk and time investment” can only be answered in how you want to play the game. In my opinion, some weapons you can build as a result of all the effort makes you next to invincible, if used properly.

  • Rebuke: I like this one. You are able to kill more enemies instead of just weakening them like the goliath does. Fairly balance IMO, have not found any strategies yet what could make this OP.
  • Shard Gun: Also nice. Not as powerfull as the Harrower, except when used at longer range. Also, have not found any strategies yet what could make this OP.
  • Crystal Crossbow: No opinion here, don’t use it. I don’t use the infiltrator class without combo. Don’t see the point except to have a different (more difficult?) playstyle.
  • Mattock of the ancient: Pointless, since you can have the Scyther. Killing enemies is better then shocking them.
  • Scorpion: now here it gets really slippery. In combination wilt lvl 7 sniper/infiltrator combo with Sneak Attack, you can one-shot most enemies, two shots for a Siren and to disable the abdomen of a non-suspecting Chiron. I little too OP IMO.
  • Scyther: here is where the DLC goes really astray. This insanely OP weapon cuts though almost anything with lethal results. Combine this with LVL 7 Assault/Beserker combo with Rapid Clearance and Adrenaline Rush and have a priest in your team with Frenzy. I ended the “The bionic fortress” mission in two turns (AI had one turn to just show up with everything it got) using this while the rest of the team was eating popcorn, watching the massacre happen. Replenishment costs: 0. There are scenarios thinkable to end this mission (and other missions) successfully in the first turn because of this. Conclusion: the Scyther breaks most the game.

What I miss is this (and I agree with that of the linked post) is that the enemies and other factions don’t get anything from the new resources. No new weapons and gear in the factions. No newer or tougher enemies in the main story, or even an Triton wielding a Scorpion. This could balance some stuff out.
Except for the Scyther. This one should be scrapped.

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Scorpion and Scyther were the weapons I was looking to produce with 300 hit and advanced sniper with more range, more damage and more pierce, so thanks for experience sharing.

I would not drop Scyther since its close range and its not easy to build your super Scyther soldier :slight_smile:
Rather Frenzy or Rapid Clearance could be modified, to disable its so frequent use.

I was more thinking of Ancients coming in aid of Pandorans and having them with diffent weapons, not just lasers.

Not easy to build?
Take any Assault, equip him with the Vengeance Torso and ready, nothing else needed, full speed build, 300 damage AOE(!) for 1 AP.
And now take an Infiltrator in the mix and we are at 600 damage with area effect … for 1 AP.

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Sorry for the confusion, english isn´t my first language.

“What I miss is this (and I agree with that of the linked post) is that the enemies and other factions don’t get anything from the new resources.”

This is basically my point. I am not saying that the weapons aren´t worth it, they are powerfull (I have testet most weapons except the hammer), but that imo the ancient missions are more difficult then regular missions. This “feels” wrong to a certain degree from a progression standpoint.

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I don’t like this also, although this is common in the Final Fantasy series and most fans there don’t mind it. You have a story, and a side-content that’s after endgame in theory. When I played FFVII back then as a kid, I made all the side-content first thinking that I would need it for the end and was bummed by the last boss, I was ridiculously overpowered.

One difference in PP is that you CANNOT access this side-content AFTER the endgame (from what I know, I’ve never actually finished PP). So, if you want to see it, you’ll get OP soldiers before endgame. You may of course not use the OP weapons in the last mission, but if you tried them to see them, it’ll probably have already taken some or all of the joy away from the lack of challenge.

The other difference is that in FF there are ultra-OP enemies in the side content that are difficult even with the most OP weapons you can find. So, there’s a high-level challenge for the stuff you get. PP doesn’t have this so there’s not much challenge anymore after you get the OP weapons.

Besides all the boring mechanics and chores of this DLC, In my opinion the team must decide if LotA is a main story content or a side content at heart. If it’s a main story content as it seems to be, then it must not be OP, must be balanced, not take away the challenge of the game, and it probably should be presented to the player a bit later. If however they decide that it is an entirely side content, not related to the main story, then it should be accessible even after you finish the game, and be difficult as hell so that you don’t even try it in the early-mid game.

Just my 2c of course.

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Sorry, but I’m familiar with the Source and Style of this problem.

March 16, 2020 Let's say the Designer’s Scales were Broken
(Attached links, like Topic Arguments, at the same time.)

2020

I am officially 1 year on this forum, and it seems like Eternity.

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It’s DLC, so almost by definition it’s side content in that you don’t actually need it to complete the game.

Personally, I agree with all the criticisms and have told the devs so on many occasions in so many words. Paradoxically, LotA is too resource-intensive for what you get - but what you get seriously unbalances the game.

It’s also a massive plot Spoiler if you engage with it too early. It’s better than it used to be - because the devs at least took advice and delayed the trigger until Symes’ Grandfather is introduced - but it still assumes you know about the Antediluvian Civ before you’ve learned what this is from the main story thread.

So my advice in Phoenix point: some helpful hints for xcom players is not to engage with LotA when it first appears.

The way I and some others I know in the Council play it, we view it as optional side content to engage with during the endgame while you’re waiting for the Story Research to mature. This way, it gives you something to do with Squads that are actually strong enough to do it, and adds to your arsenal at a point where the Pandas are at their strongest, so it doesn’t feel too OP.

That said: I don’t like it very much and ignore it most of the time. I rarely agree with noStas, but in this case I think (s)he’s right.

I’m hoping that Festering Skies will be much better thought-out.

I am 100% Male, with my pros and cons. :shushing_face: With traditional views on offspring.


  • Release in EGS - unfinished with OP skills
  • DLC 1 - unfinished with OP skills
  • DLC 2 - unfinished with OP skills
  • Release to Steam - unfinished with OP skills
  • DLC 3 - unfinished with … imo, with OP skills

Appalled by Steam (Reviews)

I never tried that uber soldier things … too Nazi :slight_smile: I like the team effort of good and versatile soldiers

Since I never went just to close combat weapons (I see them as last resort option) I missed that mutation torso that puts it to 1AP per action, yes that could be mixed with Rapid Clearance, Rapid Rush and Priest Frenzy to make a havoc.

I prefer regen torso and miss it does not heal more general HP, but returning wounded limbs in longer and more enemy missions is essential to me, since engineer is needed otherwise.

Thank you for your insight, much appreciated.

Blockquote It’s DLC, so almost by definition it’s side content in that you don’t actually need it to complete the game.

Sorry for beeing pedantic, but in my opinion DLC is addittional content, beeing side content is one form a DLC can manifest as. Maybe that is what you ment in the first place and it got lost in translation, if that is the case, forget i mentioned it .: )
As an example, in Stellaris (which is a different genre, sorry for that) most DLC is supposed to add to campaign play.

I have to admit, I just finished my first campaign with DLCs activated, so my opinion has yet to mature.
My assumption however is that LotA is supposed to add to the campaign and was disigned to be played alongside it and not as side content. And people who bought Year one edition will most likely come to the same conclusion.

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You have a point, but my point is that you don’t need LotA to succeed at - or even complete - the campaign. In fact, if you start it too early, it can drain all your resources and actually lose you the game.

Personally, I don’t even think it adds to campaign play, since I’m one of those players who feels that the combination of basic weapons and skills in Phoenix Point tends to create overpowered supersoldiers who break the game anyway - and therefore I play with a ton of self-restrictions to prevent myself from doing that.

So wasting your resources to build massively overpowered weapons that can completely break the game if you use them right is not my idea of an essential component of the campaign.

However, if you like creating supersoldiers and can invest in the LotA sites without completely screwing your economy, then it’s a great add-on for you. But to me it is only ever going to be that: an add-on that I can happily live without.

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On the plus side it’s a break in the same old same, over and over again.

The implementation and execution of the LotA DLC is so poor that I can almost scream. The game leaves you completely alone with all the complicated requirements to create new weapons. You would expect the game or quest would inform you at every moment what is missing or what would be necessary to explore or obtain it. An odyssey of crazy resources and blueprints to exotic resources. The madness. A waste of time and money. Can be safely ignored.

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That’s just bad implementation of the content though, and does not relate to it being main content or not. LotA’s story and lore is directly associated to the main story and plays along it, that’s why I see it intended as main story content and not side content. Sarakash explained it better than me already, but side content besides not being necessary to finish the story/game in general is somewhat unrelated to the main content, it just shares the same “world” and setting. For example, if we had a DLC where the new red haired character took on personal missions and their outcome did not influence the main game story.

So, to me LotA kind of mixes both things - it’s main story content in essence but is implemented like side content, and it just does not fit well. That’s why I said they need to figure out what they want from it first.

Yeah this is indeed good, and to me personally it looks and feels like expanded main story content and should be such, however it’s mechanics and added weapons should be too. Just integrate them better into the main campaign, having it integrated in the YOE helps with it a lot. Make the weapons more balanced with the rest, like a top tier. Also make it be less of a hassle to acquire the possibility of manufacturing them, but costing more resources and time to build them, so that we won’t be able to have them in every soldier in time.

Then a later DLC could, if they want to, introduce real side content, maybe even as an after-endgame mode with no doomsday clock.

"“Poetayto” - “potarto”

To me, ‘main content’ is stuff that is essential to complete the storyline, and LotA isn’t. But it’s all just semantics and I don’t care enough about it to argue.

It’s there, and as MC says, it gives you something different to do while you wait for the endgame research to come to the boil. But I doubt it’s going to get ‘fixed’ any time soon.

Semantics, yes, but just to clarify I was not “correcting” you - just trying to get us into the same page so we were talking about the same thing.

As with most anything here in the forum, we don’t expect it to be fixed soon unless there are shared plans about it. We discuss it nonetheless and talk about how we would like them to be improved, trying to reach an easy to develop solution so that you council guys can take it to the devs with some greater possibility of implementation.

Absolutely, and I didn’t mean to sound petulant. It’s the fallout of dashing off a quick reply when you’re in the middle of work :wink:

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I like 50 SP per mission and plans for some super duper weapons, but rest is pure sado-masochism.