The Pandorans seem to have the order to NOT bump into you. So with vanish there is nearly no risk of being revealed.
Only queen that throws mist can reveal you.
And you still emit sound so worms and Chirons can be a problem.
Vanish only restore the 25% bonus it isnāt supposed to make you invisible at next enemy turn. Perhaps I have a bug or you use mods screwing it up. Probably the problem is more on my side, but I canāt stop think, try without mods and let see.
EDIT: Skill description has a bug then otherwise until detected makes no sense and would need precise at next player turn.
Iāll have to check but it seems like it always played like that for me.
Also, if you look at the video above, youāll see that Pandorans move on the tile next to him without revealing him. And he is far from 100% stealth:
- 25% from infiltrator bonus
- 20% styx body
- 5% acheron head
I think the description means: ā¦ or spotted once the full turn is finished.
I made a ābalance changeā feedback about that: https://phoenixpoint.canny.io/feedback/p/vanish-super-exploitable
ā¦ or until detection.
This āorā just make my point, it implies an exception at what you quote, but ok youāll argue the counter case of Scylla. Thatās possible, a bit misguiding in my opinion, but yeah.
Ok let stop argue, could be mods or me plus description bug/misguiding. So Iāll test.
The point is when I started use stealth and scout have soldier revealed and killed made me play them a lot more cautiously. But then it put them in context where I couldnāt see clearly if stealth is broken or not during enemy turn, I think I had cases but eventually it was not right after a magic invisibility.
The point is if stealth is broken during enemy turn or if it is at beginning of player turn, itās the same if a clear attack case isnāt quoted. So yeah I could not even have bug. If you ask me, itās too OP another OP hole.
Itās how I thought it was working, lol. Iād say let me try around it, yes it looks stupidly OP, anyway invisibility is stealth killer. But Iāll test, perhaps it can get another nerf. Whatās sure if it works like that, itās plain boredom exploit.
I have to try vanish with a mind-fragger around
With Chiron? Well if you never alert itā¦ Hence the single man exploit, with a team alerted and Chiron is not ignoring stealth moving, and perhaps not invisible and moving. But well a single target will probably be low priority.
They canāt see you but still can hear.
Chiron does what Arthrons doesnāt. He bombs the place where sound was heard.
So doing what he did in the video with a bomb Chiron around is hardly possible.
It doesnāt remove that this video even if with low stealth soldier is pure plain exploit, no point in the arguing around rushing a Lair.
I have seen letās play of better players, and they go on randomly no scouting, sorry but for me itās plain stupid. I will admit 10 turns not 5 turns without some boredom exploit.
I think youāre right here.
And so are you. I completely neglected Adrenaline Rush.
Seems that vanish adds 200% stealth
Tested and yeah vanish males invisible, that said itās a lot less OP than stealth 100%. With 10 WP I couldnāt do much with it. But itās a matter of WP and limit arenāt that low.
Iām not sure that Lair abuse is a real reason to nerf it. Without Stealth 100% it looks risked, you donāt find a place to stay and restore will then thatās the end.
EDIT: Thatās typically stuff that would require a re design of the global skill points, itās really a nice idea but the no cap per soldier is a big problem in my opinion. The temporary invisibility makes sense unlike stealth 100%, the game isnāt designed for stealth and itās probably the only way to open various options (I never used yet). But the possibility to have a lot of WP without sacrificing anything but use less soldiers with more SP, makes it potentially weird.
You can vanish and restore will in the same turn (vanish doesnāt use AP).
With enough will, you donāt have to restore each turn and can move.
With the will high enough, itās slow but ridiculous, I agree this is a problem, once more the lack of cap doesnāt help but thereās more.
EDIT: Instead of adding an AP cost they could do something similar than control, canāt restore will if control, in that case it would be double direction, canāt restore will if invisible, canāt become invisible if restore was used. In fact this rule should be general, restore will shouldnāt allow use any skill and the reverse.
So I tested, Speed 18, Will 12, Stealth arround 45, the video is or became a Fantasy video.
In fact Worms Chirons are a lot of trouble too because worms ignore invisibility, same for Sentinels. And Lairs maps changed a lot, much less holes where hide if any, more flat area in center, probably smaller. In fact I have prev game version so I could verify but not worth it.
Hence itās either high luck or no Chiron at all, any category of Chiron, false solution.
This let 100% Stealth, or extreme speed and high will, that is rush in 3/4 turns max or perhaps never been detected.
The point is when using visibility constantly, if enemy are close it will alert them anyway when you start turn with invisibility, this trigger a chain of alerts up to Chirons. Itās possible there isnāt the problem with Stealth 100%.
The map layout has also its role, some could make it more doable, but overall itās clearly a false solution.
So tried with team 6 one assault/infiltrator with Will 12, Speed 18. Itās certainly possible, but thereās traps, move and oops be not far enough to a Sentinel and the attempt fail, itās possible that with two Chirons it can be different.
Invisible/Dash/move, Invisible/Restore, Invisible/move, Invisible/Restore, Invisible/Restore, Invisible/move and here the target, oops not the right place. At this point the lairs boredom was too much and give up. Clearly with high will and speed, itās just ridiculous exploit.