Impossible to complete this game

I am writing after playing since initial release… and NEVER getting anywhere close to completing it. I am writing this now because I am just frustrated and it is not fun to play.

  1. There are so many issues with playability. Not anywhere near enough resources, is the first problem and the amount you use to manufacturer things makes it much much worse. There is no balance there.
  2. Next, line of sight and overwatch suck, to be blunt. It does not work worth a damn… 50% of time when it is setup, creatures still just run through or open fire after moving into a zone.
  3. Myrmidons and small creatures vs the tracked armor vehicles. From the beginning, they should be able to run over and squash the smaller things like myrmidons and face huggers etc. The idea you have to “upgrade” or research tech to do so, is utterly ridiculous. For larger creatures they should do some damage running into them, knock downs or stuns. This idea a armor unit lacks the mass takes away any believability.
  4. Myrmidons and other creatures have upward of 4 attacks or more when they did not move. Yet humans have two? One if they need to reload. And creatures get multiple attacks even when they run all the way across the map it seems. Can’t tell you how many times this stuff cost me a character or even the mission
  5. We are supposed to get any left gear on the ground, on bodies or crates when we complete a mission… screen even states as much… .yet NEVER does it give us any of that loot. Not once have I ever seen it pull the loot from the map for our inventory. It’s broken still.
  6. Almost forgot one! Cover. Does not work worth a damn either. Unless you are straight on with a target, they ALWAYS hit you with solid strikes. If you move to solid cover but there is even a slight angle of line of sight for the AI, the cover is worthless. If the AI is straight in front of you, cover appears to work as it should… But if they are any more than 5-10 degrees at an angle to you from the front, all bets are off.

There are other smaller issues but for now, these are the most serious I have found. There might be even more the farther in you get and the higher level you go… except I can’t seem to get there… I don’t like speed running or games that use timers at a pace that takes away the fun. I.E., I don’t want to have to force one path to accomplish the game because the clock is going so fast that you don’t really have time to do or enjoy anything else.

I hope these issues are and will be looked into because for now, I am putting the game aside… I stream it when I play but my frustration has finally reached a limit so for now, I am putting it aside.

I will gladly dive back in when and if some of these major problems are finally addressed.

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Thanks for your feedback.

  1. Not having enough resources for everything is part of the game design. You need to prioritize. You can get resources in many ways. I suggest reading this: Geoscape - wiki.phoenixpoint.com. One thing that is not mentioned there is demolishing facilities you do not need. For example demolishing access lift is something I always do. Also you do not need that many stores.

  2. I suggest reading this about overwatch: Combat - wiki.phoenixpoint.com . Quote from there: overwatch may not activate even if an enemy steps into the overwatch area due to a perception/stealth check, e.g. a target with +50% stealth will not trigger overwatch from a character unless it is within less than half its perception - this is why some Tritons with high stealth can avoid triggering overwatch from your operatives, and more so during night missions, when perception of all characters is halved.

  3. I personally mostly agree with this point.

  4. Humans also have 1 AP attacks for example with pistols, bash, mounted launchers etc. Enemies follow the same rules as player: movement costs them APs and then they can use APs left to attack.

  5. Some missions do automatically pickup things from the ground some do not. This info is always shown before the mission. Simply put if you need to evacuate then it is not automatically picked up.

  6. I would suggest reading this: Combat - wiki.phoenixpoint.com. Quote from there: Because of the real ballistics modelling in Phoenix Point , cover only works if it’s actually in the way of the projectiles and doesn’t get destroyed by them. If some part of a character (even if very small), is exposed (e.g. because the attack comes at an angle) and the attacker is close enough to accurately target it, the cover will not do any good.

In the next patch there will be option to turn off what you probably call a timer (population meter).

I would suggest playing the game on lower difficulty because I think it would be more enjoyable for you and also the time pressure is smaller.

Detailed explanation of differences between difficulty levels: Getting Started - wiki.phoenixpoint.com

The main issue I have with Myrmidons is the same one expressed by the expert game designer and YouTuber, The Edmon. They are ridiculously overturned.

Their attack strength is too much, their skittering movement speed is too high, and they have way too many hit points for what they are supposed to be. Like 320 hit points for an exploding acid myrmidon is, pardon my French, complete and total bullshit.

As they are, the venom myrmidons and acid myrmidons are way more dangerous than a Scylla. And the comparison isn’t even close. The acid myrmidon is about 10 to 20 times more dangerous than the super Scyllas with 4000 hit points and all their abilities. And aren’t Scylla supposed to be the toughest enemies in the game, the apex pandorans?

… Because Scyllas aren’t. The myrmidons are literally flying away with that title.

And on some missions, the player can face off against five or six of the most dangerous enemies in the game simultaneously. Like seriously? There are only two Scyllas on the game’s final mission!

When a myrmidon appears on a mission, I call it a bullshit experience. When there are two of them, it’s a double bullshit experience. And when they show up as part of the continual reinforcements, those missions become memorable for being part of Phoenix Point’s infinite bullshit experience.

The main issue a lot players have with the myrmidons is that they just don’t have an adequate counter to them. This problem reflects a core issue with game balance.

These myrmidons are enemies that move quickly–even faster when frenzied–can attack multiple times per turn if they don’t fly, have tiny hit boxes that make then very hard to hit, armour on top of that because why not, and then they explode upon death causing massive damage to any unit around it.

But, you know what, I’m not complaining about the death-explosion mechanic. I actually like that feature about the myrmidons.

It’s everything else about them that sucks. Myrmidons, in their current iteration, are the worst enemies ever designed in the entire history of video game development. People studying game design in computer science faculties around the world will look at the myrmidons in Phoenix Point as a case study in what not to do, an example of how lack of balance with one poorly designed enemy can ruin an entire game.

Myrmydions, as they are, are a really good reason to uninstall the game.

Myrmidons, when it comes to bad game design, are even worse than Umbras.

The fix, however, is really simple. Tone them down. Hit them with the nerf bat. Reduce their attack strength so that the no longer instantly disable a soldier’s limb with one hit. Or kill soldiers or haven defenders with two or three hits.

Reduce the damage that Myrmidons do to something more like 5 damage per sting plus 5 acid or 5 poison per hit if its one of the advanced types.

And also reduce their hit points significantly so that players can counter them better with basic assault rifle overwatch from safe distances. In terms of hit points, Myrmidons should be stronger than worms but weaker than mindfraggers. I suggest about 45 hit points for regular myrmidons (currently 180), 75 hit points for the venom variety (currently 250), and 80 hit points for the acid myrmidons (currently 320). Currently, they have hit points that are four times higher than what they ought to have, and their overly inflated bullet-sponge hit point values has a significant impact on the game balance. As they are, myrmidons kind of obliterate any notions of balance, fairness, and fun in the game.

Anyway, I’m just putting those numbers out there to show how much the myrmidons really need to be nerfed.

It’s not the behavior I see with aliens… I watch even the earliest creatures run long distances up to my characters then strike 2 or 3 times… If I run that distance, I either don’t get to make an attack or if I do, I get ONE attack only.

As for the overwatch, it may be set up like that but it sucks as I said. If it is broad daylight, and you can see the thing, you can shoot at it… or should be able to.

Not one mission, regardless of type, has ‘picked’ up any dropped gear, items or anything else. It ain’t just evacuate missions. NONE of them pick up anything and bring it back to base where it could be used as revenue or materials or gear.

And the big one, resources. I did not say they should have resources for ‘everything’. But there is not even enough resources for half the stuff in the game. I should be able to setup a base, buy weapons and ammo and armor even at a basic level without having to count every little penny or use of material just to make one rifle or a couple magazines or even grenades. Having to go down to that small level of micro management is NOT fun for many of us. One of the things that makes XCOM/XCOM2 fun is the idea that resources there are also critical and you can’t buy everything… BUT as you grow and do missions, you earn more of those resources so you can at least equip your troops and upgrade things in a reasonable period of time.

I prefer playing the tactical and strategic ‘game’, with basic commander managing of things… but this micro management down to the last bit of resource etc, is just not fun at all and takes away a lot from the enjoyment of killing aliens, finding new tech, moving through the storylines etc.

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The exploding acid myrmidons are the biggest threat IME. 300+ hp damage within 4 tiles when they die and explode is killer.

The 50+ hp attacks aren’t fun, but are deadly vs. the haven defenders on most missions.

Umbras just need to have legs or some body parts. If they had legs, I could disable them.
Actually just if any “Tar Shadow” mob is there just please highlight it clearly without me needing to click on every single creature?

Overwatch for me isn’t great, but not horrible. Overwatch for the enemies is amazing. I can jump from one cover to another, and if they’ve got a 5-shot machine gun, every single shot hits. And, I know that the enemies know exactly which tiles trigger overwatch and avoid them since I’ve seen them turn, run backward, around some obstacle, and then come after me. They should not be smart enough to know exactly the overwatch area, if at all.

Resources are a pain point. Just being able to pick up some “salvage” after some of the missions would be very, very helpful. I’ve found that I’ve got to activate nearly every base, and need to get everywhere to complete all of the missions, and especially with Festering Skies my bases get ransacked quite often, even with 30 soldiers and 7 aircraft, I can’t -
defend havens against ground attacks from either the creatures or other factions,
defend havens against air attacks,
defend bases against aircraft,
go after the antedeluvians,
complete missions,
complete Kaos missions,
complete faction missions
explore everything

The only reprieve I’ve gotten this campaign is the Kaos weapons. The bug of resetting the reliability when returned into mixed inventory is quite helpful. But, now I’ve got the Shard shotgun so the Kaos ones aren’t as good as that.

While I am enjoying the air combats, having the enemies armor repair between every battle no matter how short of a time is a pain point and makes the tougher ones really, really tough - I need to send in 3-5 of my own, retreating them, and sometimes repairing and going back in for 5-10 total rounds with them.

I find line of sight and cover to work very well. It is DIFFERENT than games that use + and - modifiers to hit, whereas PP models each bullet, and any one of them might hit cover or the target. I use this to my advantage quite often. There is some bug with a post being able to block every projectile from a shotgun though. I had a post block 4 shots in a row (with the sniper ability) at near point blank with the Shard gun. That should be impossible.

And, I don’t know about anyone else, but anytime any of my characters die, I quit and reload. Character development and experience is WAY TOO RARE to let anyone die. I’d much rather see an “unconscious” status where they are out for the rest of the combat, but they can recover after. It wouldn’t change anything other than meaning fewer reloads.

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Trade at every have you pass through and you will have so many resources you won’t know what to do with them, unless you’re opening up too many bases or building too many vehicles. Ideally though you steal vehicles rather than build them.

Overwatch does suck a bit, but it sucks a bit less once you understand the perception & stealth relationship. Basically your heavies are never going to spot anything on overwatch unless it’s really close, your assaults will be a bit better and your snipers will be fairly reasonable; the range at which overwatch works will be a lot less than the range at which you can see - and a lot less than the range at which a triton can see you, because they have high perception and you usually have low stealth.

I love myrmidons! They’re possibly the best part of Festering Skies, tied with those cool creepy possessed havens. The acid ones are really nasty, so once they show up I’m extra-cautious in moving forward until I know where they all are, and I keep a safe distance and target them with maximum prejudice.

If you really hate them don’t forget that you can turn Festering Skies off. I usually do this because despite loving myrmidons and possessed havens I find the air battles really bog the game down.

Looting gear: you only get what you pick up during the mission or what you see the bad guys drop when they die, and then only on missions where loot recovery is enabled. There’s not usually much of it. Just because you see a triton with a gun for example that does not mean you’ll get his gun at the end of the battle - only if he drops it when he dies and it’s a loot-recovery map. Any map with crates is a salvage mission and loot is not recovered in those.

Cover does work, because of the ballistics system: every projectile the enemy fires has its path traced from the weapon to the target, and if that path hits cover then it does not hit you. If projectiles are hitting you it’s because the enemy is firing at those parts of you that aren’t in cover - just like when you do the same to them. That arthron standing behind a crate when you shoot his carapace? He’s in cover, yet you just shot him. Maybe with every shot in the burst. This works both ways.

Games totally beatable. I finished a play through just a month ago.

As you didnt mention with what DLC you had enabled I’m going to guess that you had some of the newer ones ticked (as you mentioned enemy classes I’ve not encountered in any of my play throughs). I had living weapons + blood and titanium enabled and whilst the game is certainly now harder to get resources, once you have fungal food production researched thats not an issue.

Games a bit easier than it was 2 years ago if anything. The new tutorial is excellent, and I quite like the majority of changes to the game with patches that have been added.

I think people are missing what I am saying… I understand the new DLC’s change things up. That’s not the issue. I even understand they make the game harder, that too is not the issue.

The issue is using the DLC’s and all the changes, make the game no longer something you can sit back and enjoy doing your own thing. Now, you have to follow a specific path to have ANY chance of having enough resources and mileage to get through the campaign. There is literally no room for error now and instead of battles that are something you have to use some guile and tactics with, they have become a ‘who has greatest firepower the fastest wins’ type thing.

And there is no room for trying again, trial and error. If I screw up a mission, my ONLY option is to reload a save game. There is no, ‘Ok, I need some better tech to try this mission’ next time. Once you try a mission, it’s gone. No going back and trying again, trying different tech, npcs etc.

I used to be able to beat some missions that gave a real challenge, even with the basic level gear ONLY because I used planning and tactics and the skills of my unit to do so. Now? It’s all about having the best firepower, armor and who can out power who first in that regard.

I don’t want to follow a set path to victory, I don’t want to have to only research in this direction, this item over that item, do this mission before that mission and rush my way through things. It’s not fun.

I want the challenge but I want a challenge that is fair. I am not looking to have the game become ‘easy’ or simple to beat. I am looking for one that is middle ground, I win some, I lose some. I want a game where I can research this tech first and maybe get to that other tech a bit later… Having to sell off my gear, base parts and pieces and constantly fly from one settlement to the next trading stuff non stop just to have enough to make ammo and basic needs, is not fun. It’s monotonous.

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Let me answer and give feedback to your points. Because… yes game plays differently than other XCOM games and sometimes it can be frustrating. Game can be hard, but after several attempts you should be able to find how things work and how to adjust your tactics.

Yes it can sometimes be a problem, but it comes from two sources:

  1. You don’t expand fast enough to acquire resources fast enough - fully explored Earth gives quite many resources from all the events. Also the more you explore the more missions you see and that also give additional resources.
  2. You try to build too many things:
    a) Don’t build anything in your bases unless it is really necessary (in this game you can’t prepare all bases to all threats). Just activate some bases that you need to cross the continents and build there Satellite Uplink (this is mostly what you need with next bases). In first few bases you can try to get Research Lab and Fabrication Plant, but no more than 5 to not overextend your resources.
    b) Don’t manufacture the best weapons you can, to fully equip your new soldiers - just give them one good weapon, medkit, maybe some grenade and some cheap handgun… later you can think of giving them some cheap armor. If they will survive more missions then think of giving them something better. And re-use unequipped items on next new soldiers.
    c) Don’t try to manufacture vehicles and their equipment unless you are 100% sure you need them and you will use them to gain more resources.
    d) Don’t try to repair things in faction havens… they will survive long enough, so you don’t need to worry about that too much.

Like @Valygar wrote. Check wiki for hints how to use it. Overwatch is not so powerful in this game like in XCOM, but it is still powerful ability. I use it like with 85% success rate. Just don’t extend cone too far especially with short range weapons and pay extra attention if there are no obstacles between you and expected path of enemy - because enemies like to run to cover behind obstacles - that can ruin overwatch shot. Just don’t set overwatch to try to hit enemies in such conditions.

True about that point. It can be annoying. My solution to that is to keep away from these small pests. Or have a soldier or two nearby to get rid of them.

Two things here:

  1. Yes, small melee enemies have 4 attacks per turn. But medium melee enemies have only 2 attacks, just like ranged enemies. Some ranged enemies have even only 1 attack per turn.
  2. And player has the same, depending on the weapon. Sometimes you have 4 attacks with small weapons, 2 attacks with medium weapons, and 1 attack with bigger weapons… BUT there are abilities that let you extend number of attacks. Quick Aim for Sniper, Boom Blast and Rage Burst for Heavy, Adrenaline Rush for Berserker, Rapid Clearance for Assault, Technician’s Remote Control for turrets and vehicles, Infiltrator has a skill for multiple drones deployment… And you can multiclass all these soldiers to extend all these skills to other weapons with which soldier usually was not proficient with. In the end player gets multitude of attacks with experienced soldiers that can overpower many enemies.

I get loot from missions. Just not from all. And you need to remember that dead enemy doesn’t leave all their stuff on the ground - most of it disappear with his death.

You need to forget about XCOM cover system. If enemy is at 15 to 30 degrees angle he can see you. If he can see you, then he can shoot you. It works the same for the player. You don’t need to get 90 degree line of sight to be able to shoot enemy. Just move little bit to the side and you can usually find some arm or leg sticking out of the cover and you are free to kill that enemy. So to give you a solution - just hide behind big rocks or big walls and not just behind corner, but move away from it - smaller obstacles don’t guarantee safety to your soldiers (despite they reduce chance of being hit).

OK, as I said, loot is NOT generating and being picked up at the end of the mission… ONLY if I physically take one of my characters to a body and pick it up and put it in their inventory, does any of it get picked up.

Next, everything else you said goes right toward what I said. I don’t want to play a linear, can only do it this way to win type game. That means all the stuff in the game is there for no reason if there is no need to even try to research or use the stuff. There is no reason to work on your bases, upgrade your armor, weapons and more if I have to do things in such a narrow scope to get anywhere.

We should be able to explore, research, do missions without having to rush because the clock is running out super fast. We should not have to follow a prescribed method and path just to get through the game… I don’t want linear game play, which is exactly what you and some others are describing. I want to do it at my pace within reason, I want to try new things, and move around how I want to move around. I don’t like feeling rushed or forced to only research this but not that, or use this weapon but not that one.

It’s not a matter of “finishing” the game. It’s a matter of enjoying it… having fun while doing so.

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I totally agree, I have been playing for months and still have not gotten anywhere. The issues you mention are spot on.

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Would need to see these missions to be sure that something is wrong. Maybe you just expect that there will be much of that loot. Which is not the case with exception of scavenge missions where you get a lot of stuff, but you also need to collect all the pieces in your inventory to obtain them. (Hint - vehicles have unlimited cargo space so you can drop items inside of them - soldiers inside vehicle dropping items on the ground).

Interesting, because my playstyle is different than other community councilors. And many of them play differently from each other (our experiences varied a lot that is why we argued on many things). So I would assume that we are not forced in any narrow path to win the game.

I just gave you the hints how to make it more possible to win. Of course some of your points are true.

Bases are almost useless - they are used just for scanning area and spotting places for possible exploration. And some of them will need to be “regeneration places”, where you repair your vehicles, plus heal and rest your soldiers. But from 19 bases only something like 5 need to be constructed like that, and at some point Mist Repellers may be added to Satellite Uplinks in every base. All other buildings may stand in your main base and it will be fine. Everything else is waste of resources.

Yes it narrows your choices, but game is designed to have scarse resources. Until late game you won’t be able to do everything.

Yes, there is no next tier of armor. Some armors may be better than the other, but you won’t find really better ones than those at the start… Maybe with exception of bionic augmentations, which are far superior than any armor or mutation. But are really expensive - which again may limit your choices how your soldiers are armored. I only augment few of my soldiers in this way because I prefer to spend resources elsewhere.

Well about weapons there is good reason to search for those better - enemy evolves and it makes them hard to kill. Of course well experienced soldiers with powerful abilities still can kill enemies with basic weapons available from the start of the campaign. But I prefer to use some of the weapons we can research, as I don’t use some overpowered combinations of skills. Still there is no clear tier weapons’ system. Some weapons are just better thanks to super accuracy or thanks to parabolic line of fire.

Some research is needed to win the game, and there are 4 (not sure now?) paths to win the game, and all of them requiring different research projects to be performed. And to be clear I always end up doing almost all the projects. That is why you should aim to have at least 10 Research labs (some even suggest 15?) in your bases - this is something you build in vast number only lesser than Satellite Uplinks, but you may end up doing in just 2 bases. Of course you don’t have to focus on 2 bases, and time when you will have these 10+ Labs may be different (of course sooner the better, because it will let you research more in given timespan).

I would say that only on Legendary difficulty time is running super fast. On Hero it is less stressful. And on Rookie or Veteran I would say that you have plenty of time to do many different things. And what to say about that… Highest difficulty setting should put a pressure on the player - mod that developers are announcing will eliminate this, which is bad move in my opinion… But of course there is no need to touch that setting, but experiences will now vastly vary from player to player.

Then Rookie difficulty may be for you… If this one feels that it is rushing you then I suppose I can’t help. But there was player who tested limits and played on that setting for many in-game months, ending up with having all researched, build, manufactured etc. So it is possible, or at least was possible at some point.

I think you’re pointing out what is fundamentally messed up with Phoenix Point. We have an open world, sandbox environment for a geoscape combined with a very rigid meta. And those two things don’t gel.

An open world, sandbox game is all about giving players the freedom to mess around with all the toys in the game. But bumping up the difficulty makes the meta more and more rigid. So if you know the meta and follow all the right moves, you can easily beat this game–even on legend difficulty. But if you don’t know the meta inside-out–or if you just want to experiment and mess around with all the toys in the game–this game punishes you.

The early versions of Phoenix Point has this thing called “adaptive difficulty” as its core feature; the Pandorans were supposed to evolve in ways that countered the player’s tactics and technologies.

Sounds great on paper. And it makes for awesome bullet points in marketing presentations and for super-cool talking points among executives bragging about the latest genre-shaping tech in their forthcoming releases.

But in practice, the “adaptive difficulty” thing didn’t work. The Pandorans just evolved into giant bullet sponges in record time, turning the game into a slogging grindfest that wasn’t much fun. The meta, back then, was to avoid tactical combat missions as much as possible; just build a training base, level up soldiers that way, and only venture out of your base to do story missions and haven defences. The early version, version 1.0, was a ridiculous and spectacular failure of a game.

Anyway, “adaptive difficulty” was eventually scrapped during the game’s development.

When developing the main selling feature of the game became untenable, the developers had to come up with a fix, and the game we have now is kind of quick-and-dirty salvage effort held together with duct tape and twine. In other words, we have a “playable” game, but it is just barely playable. And it is also a deeply flawed and unstructured mess.

But at least we have this game and not some abandoned project. At least we have something. And something is better than nothing, right?

Nevertheless, the Phoenix Point we have today suffers from a lack of overall structure. There is just no vision of what the early game would be like and how the player could transition into the mid game and then into the end game. The game’s AI and its genre-redefining “adaptive difficulty” was supposed to sort all that out, automatically. So why think about it when a computer can do all your thinking for you. Take away that computer and … anyway, without that vision, it is almost impossible to balance this game.

This is the first post I’ve every read anywhere (Reddit, Discord, this forum, etc) where someone states that they actually like the myrmidons.

To me, they are the worst video game enemies ever developed in the entire history of video game development. So not just bad. Not just totally sucking. But the worst thing ever (in a video game).

Myrmidons aren’t balanced.

Myrmidons have way too many hit points, are far too mobile, and do way too much damage with their initial attacks. As enemies go, the exploding acid myrmidon is the most dangerous enemy in the game. By far. The Scylla doesn’t even come close. And that’s just mindbogglingly ridiculous.

Myrmidons really need to be nerfed. Big time. And I’m looking forward to the official mod support in the next release.

A myrmidon nerf mod and a no-more-umbras mod are top of my list when it comes to installing mods and giving Phoenix Point another go.

Probably you wasn’t following forum too much. There are players who like them. :slight_smile: Of course deployed in small numbers.

Even I like them. Despite thinking the same as you - they should be nerfed.

Small correction here. There was suppose to be “adaptive tactics” of Pandorans - which should react to player tactics accordingly. So they should develop proper counter weapons and abilities against our preffered way of play. This was never implemented.

On the other hand “adaptive difficulty” was system which was paying attention how player performed in the tactical part of the game. If he was good then it increased difficulty in two ways (by increasing number of deployed units and by speeding up alien evolution - by then it meant mostly bigger aliens + next level of alien bases + enabled evolved body parts in the alien randomizer). If he was loosing soldiers and/or his soldiers were heavily wounded all the time, then it decreased difficulty. This was scrapped because of difficulty spike which always hit save scumming players (those performing perfectly in tactical). In its place was introduced evolution system where aliens were structured in kind of evolution trees and now they come better and better in inteligence reports and their next iterations push the weaker versions out of deployment pool. Still game can speed up alien evolution if player is performing good, but it is related mostly to strategic behaviors.

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