Implement Ironman and impossibility to save in tactical missions

In my opinion, this kind of games are to be played in ironman mode, to player real feel the loss of an important soldier and forcing him to assume his bad decisions. Save scam just destroy this important feel.

Even if optional, to hardcore players, this feature should be present.

And, in Legendary (and maybe Hero) difficulty levels, should be always impossible to save in tactical battles. If it goes wrong and someone dye, player must assume it, if no ironman, at least, force player to restart mission. Saving at ending of all turns as no merit and again, destroy a core point of the game.

The uncertain… the fear to loss. It should be present… savescam should not be an option.

Canny Official Feedback Tool topic:
https://feedback.phoenixpoint.info/feedback/p/ironman

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This is your opinion. Nothing wrong with that. If an optional “ironman” was added, I would not care, even if I personally see it as a waste of developer effort because a player can enforce it themselves by just not loading/saving. But a request for an option is not a problem to those like me who would never use it. Either way…

You play as you enjoy.

I hold the opposite opinion. I think games are for fun, something I do for relaxation after a hard day at work, after the evening meal and spending time with my partner, for an hour before I go to bed, or perhaps for an hour on Saturday afternoon after watching the football. Fun is not wasting 30 hours of effort and then wasting it because I misclick and get a soldier or two killed. Fun is restored by simply reloading if I do that. I reload a lot. I reload when I want to. You don’t get a say as to when I get to reload, I will do it on my terms.

I play as I enjoy.

Now you crossed the line. This is not asking for an optional feature, this is asking for your playstyle to be ENFORCED on all other players.

This is not personal, I have seen this attitude many times in many games over the last 20 years+. People who feel only THEIR playstyle matters, and everyone else is just wrong.

How would you like it, if the game forced you to reload every time a soldier died - and you had no choice? Removing all options to do otherwise? I suspect based on your post, you would not like it. It would be enforcing a playstyle you hated on you. I could make up some dumb reasons why you needed to be forced to, but you would just walk away.

I play on Legend difficulty, because I want to have that many enemies and that game speed. But I still load/save as often as I like? Am I “wrong”? Because you say so? I know you can come up with all your reasons why you do not like that, but why must those reasons matter to me? Remember the part about each player playing the way they enjoy?

Why would the devs listen to such a selfish request, to remove an option from the game that some players find fun, because one subset of players wants to enforce their playstyle on everyone else?

It is sheer arrogance to assume your way of playing is “better”.

I get this is your opinion.

But this request must be ignored, obviously, because it will drive away half (or more) of the playerbase (including me), and the game company will lose a lot of money.

3 Likes

You are right, this is my oppinion, just that, and i sayed it in the first sentence.

Anyway, maybe i have not express myself well… actually there are no ironman option, at least in battles it should have.

But, of course as this is a Single Player game, everyone play as want to play. If you like to load a previous save everytime a thing goes wrong, you are in right to do it. It is a different game experience… for me that is like cheating, but as i said previously, that is only my oppinion and nothing more than that.

I feel you.
While more options is very useful, that would be nice challenge - a hardest difficulty with no in mission save (while restart should be left be in case something gets really screwed beyond control). I do understand the feel one desires for - in original UFO created by unabalanced overpower aliens used to have in beginning (Plasma tech vs rifles or crysalis appearance, even snakeman or lobsterman). Feeling of terror or hardship. No other modern xcom game has so far recreated it from Xcom 1994 and Terror from deep. Ironman mode was poor replacement.

I would prefer that for hardest difficulty then e.g. artificial limits currently set in legendary like recruits with not even a piece of armor or boss enemies appearing on special missions.

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I fully agree with you… that game experience is impossible to repeat… real frightining and challenging games at superhuman difficulty.

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Maybe not, but they go “where Fireaxis XCom” has gone before, as new gen of players like feeling overpowered to challenged. Length of campaign does not substitute it, or jumpy Pandorans evolution.
In fact evolution of Pandorans is promised to be more challenging and if done in small leaps but more intelligently and with more enemy variaty, could bring both horror and challenge.

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There were times when I missclicked, resulting in very stupid tactical situations.
Besides there is always a slight chance for some fatal bug during the game.
I think I did reload 2 or 3 times in my current playthrough, but I would hardly call that save scamming.

All in all I think it is good to have saves. If you don’t want them - just don’t reload.

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Tha´s why i suggested ironman only in tactical battles. This prevent fatal bugs in campaign.

Canny Official Feedback Tool topic:
https://feedback.phoenixpoint.info/feedback/p/ironman

I feel like this comes up frequently. I just don’t see any point in ironman. Even with ironman in XCOM you can just make a copy of your savegame file and re-load it later.

The only way to really play ironman is if you don’t reload an old save. You can play ironman by just doing it.

Because you’re not a target of Ironman mode. I don’t see the point of watching 22 people running after inflated bladder, and so I don’t.

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Had to think for a while what you mean. :wink:

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You’re not wrong. Even with ironman modes in various games, there were always ways to scum it. In XCOM Ironman mode, my favorite was just Alt+F4 or Exit to Main Menu at certain points and reloading would give me 1-3 turns back (which was all that was really needed to shift a loss into a total victory). Same thing worked in Battletech.

Point here is Ironman challenge only really works when it’s self-enforced. You don’t need a mode checkbox and save prevention to do that (they don’t/can’t ever work all that well anyway). The achievements will never mean anything because you’ll never know who cheated for them either.

Everything you have said is true, but you describe people who play Ironman for unknown to me reasons (to have something to brag about?). It is like saying that permadeath in roguelikes doesn’t make sense because you can always cheat in form of a savescum. If you want the Ironman mode, you will not do such thing; and if you do, who cares?

I guess a checkbox that locks you to single save slot shared with autosave won’t harm anyone, am I right? It is much easier to convince people that it isn’t big deal than explain them why we play Ironman. You like it, you play it. It is as simple as that. :slight_smile:

#1 reason I’d scum around Ironman despite using it was because of bugs, or things not behaving as expected.

In Phoenix Point, an example would be aiming at a target with a full reticle on it, only to then have the shot hit the invisible hitbox on some obstruction between you and the target. But also with a lot of weird mistakes I make where I miscount something and end up being one square/hp off or whatever, accidentally misclicking, setting up an overwatch cone in an area that looks like i have clear line of sight only to watch all the enemies walk right past it and start killing people, starting a mission with what i think is perfect encumbrance only to realize a bug is affecting my game and all my soldiers are overencumbered, shooting at glass and watching it not break, firing rockets at aluminum and watching it not break, parking a vehicle next to an enemy to kill it with someone from the inside but it’s out of AP and there appears to be a piece of paper preventing the soldiers from inside exiting the vehicle and then an enemy stands atop the vehicle preventing it from moving, driving too close to a wall and the vehicle becomes disabled, driving over a crate and the vehicle falls through the ground instantly exploding and killing everyone inside (this one was hilarious and just happened recently), etc.

(some of these bugs have been fixed, but in all my attempts at self-enforcing some sort of loose ironman mode in this game, these were a few of the examples of what often causes me to reload)

That is a different story. :slight_smile: This is the reason why PP isn’t “Ironman ready” yet. Just answering to argument that ironman per se is pointless.