I'm little sick of AI cheats

Human AI can see enemies inside fog. When I was defending heavens, heaven defenders that were uncontrolled by me, shot tritons that were inside mist. How? I couldn’t even see them until I was like point blank.

Human/Pandoran Ai can see through stealth. I was shot at many times when my infiltrators were stealthed.

Human/Pandoran AI can shoot right when they spawn as reinforcments. Considering their movement is limited to few tiles, they also should not be able to shoot. Heck I was even shot at through the entire map even if the reinforced unit was the only unit on the map. Example Synderion steal aircraft. My soldier was on the western part of the map, just left of the ship, enemy sniper spawned it on the central eastern reinforcent and directly shot my soldier. Double the pain it was a head shot.

3 Likes

I am not sure about this, maybe they approach them (one of them sees them)

My experience with fully stealth infltrator, unless shooting or approach, is so far so good.

I agree new spawned enemies should just spawn on first turn, especially on some missions multiply can spawn at once. I am overall against spawning as mechanics and would rather see larger map with more, but limited enemies, that take time to approach or with more obstacles that refrain long LOS lines / like you say shooting from extreme distances.

My AI cheat complain is that later Pandorans can gain soo good perception you can dream of, seeing you much easier then you can. Combined with powerful sniper, neural weapons and virus weapons that causes real pain and feels way more a cheat then 1) and 2)

No. There was no other uncontrolled defender nearby. If someone from the defenders were nearby I wouldn’t be posting this.

You can’t go more full then full stealth suit + thief perk. My soldier didn’t shoot at all and it was 1 enemy turn where both Artrom and Triton just fired volley at him. When it was my turn he was still hidden

2 Likes

This is not entirely true, here the facts:

  • The Pandorans with the most perception are Tritons with Double Perception perk and 60 perception.
  • PX soldiers can top that value with the Farsighted perk (+10), the Perception Head mutation (+14), Priest torso and leg armor (+7 and +4) to get 70 perception (without perk they are also on 60).
  • The most stealthy Tritons with double perception are Triton Ghosts with 40% Stealth.
  • The maximum a PX soldier can get, in combination with the above mentioned armor maximized to perception, is 30% stealth (5% from the Perception Head and 25% from Thief).

So it is very close together:

  • PX 70 perception vs Triton 40% stealth -> 42 tiles to spot
  • Triton 60 perception vs PX 30% stealth -> 42 tiles to spot

Only exception is the latest Triton Ghost Alpha with 49% stealth.
On the other side, they have no 100% stealth like the Infiltrators and these are always good to spot almost anything without getting spotted.

What brings me to this:

I use Infiltrators all the time and that never happens to me.
Was there maybe some other target in the back of the Infiltrator that they shoot?

There’s also the hearing mechanic. The AI soldiers may have shot a pandoran based on the red blip, even if they didn’t have visual.

About your infiltrator being shot, there’s a minimum number of tiles where anything is revealed, I think it’s 5 tiles. I’m not sure about this though, others can confirm or deny. However the enemy could also shoot you based on hearing, though you said you didn’t shoot… had this soldier shot before?

My soldiers could see tritons in the created mist several times, though it could be thanks to the spider drones. Or may be it was because of better than usual perception for some of them.

This is a Good example for

1 Like

No. It was assault/infiltrator with return fire, and the soldier returned fire.

The hearing mechanic is a wierd one, because the red blips mostly happenes when visibile unit moves out of sight. Many times I didn’t see red blips even when enemy just pop out from the corner.

The thing is when AI detects my soldiers there is a popup showing who he saw. There was no popup for my infiltrator. Here let me show you example.

In this quick vid, I’m starting my battle, move my soldiers, and when Pandorans turn begin first comes the triton, he spots 3 snipers, but not my assault/infiltrator (infil suit + thief perk). He shots at him and misses, my soldier fires back, next comes Arthrom and fires at him too. When it is my turn, my soldier is still hidden.

I never saw that they do that, AFAIK they only shoot on what they can see. I do missions with Infiltrators only and shoot when I have a target, with any weapon and without the Echo Head augmentation. Only Chirons bomb on what ever is heard when they are alarmed, the other searching around until they spot one before they shoot.

Interesting, as I said, something like that never happens to me.
The second Arthron maybe shots the Armadillo (the camera focused on it) or at the snipers in the back, your Infiltrator is pretty in line between them.
But the first Triton fires accurately at your Infiltrator and no one else … I don’t know, I use Infiltrators a lot without having such issues.

1 Like

Looks like your infiltrator fired with assault rifle before pandoran turn. Was it spotted?
And about tritons, it just got to me that they could be invisible because of activated chameleon ability, so they were visible for defenders before your turn.

1 Like

Hmm I guess your soldier must’ve fired before that (if he fired his weapon, then he was revealed to enemies), because that triton that revealed your 3 snipers already knew about him. It could be that he was invisible but already known by hearing and when he was spotted the popup didn’t show up. It could also be that another enemy had revealed him and you didn’t see the popup. However since you say that he was still hidden afterwards, it may be a bug. Was he the one that activated the vehicle? That may have something to do with it too.

I don’t think there’s cheating for the AI. There may be a bug though. If you still have the savegame, you can F10 it describing the situation and specifying that you soldier had never fired before being shot at.

If you would watch the video I’ve provided you would have seen everything that has happened relevant.

I did watch it actually, and I can’t know everything that happened because of the skips and fast forwards. Sorry for trying to help, my reply is still valid. Just F10 and explain the situation if you think it shouldn’t have happened, because I don’t think the game intends to cheat for the AI.

1 Like

I have never seen this happen, until just now. My assault/infiltrator was shot by a Triton - it definitely targeted him as he returned fire. I thought he had been exposed by worms flying about but when I got to my turn he was still stealthed.
I think this must be a bug as opposed to cheating AI though.

Seeing into mist is a bit erratic.

I have not been shot by new reinforcements - they usually just waddle one AP’s worth. Given you can overwatch the spawn points it is not completely unreasonable that they can shoot when they appear but it is a feel bad moment to be attacked by them (or would be if I had ever been on the receiving end) .

1 Like

I’ve experienced this. I can’t understand what’s happening and would assume it’s a bug.

Was on the “antarctica” tileset map and I had an infiltrator behind a tree in full stealth. On my turn he wasn’t revealed and all I did was move him into cover, and a few other units were engaged in combat. On the enemies turn, the ones that became alerted ran into some positions from across the map and began firing at the infiltrator (since trees don’t act as good cover, but I’d assumed that near-invisibility would work well enough). He was hit once and lost a few hp, but I couldn’t believe that they could see him or that he was even revealed despite doing nothing. First thought was “How was he revealed?” Then my turn came, and lo and behold, he wasn’t revealed and still had all the stealth perks enabled. :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

They were Tritons and it didn’t even say they had spotted anything.

2 Likes

Truly, they have this amazing ability

I have had a further thought that maybe the triton heard a stealthed guy and was firing at blips. That fits what happened in my first case and I certainly fire at blips occasionally.
It happened to me again in the final mission though to a silent shooter who was very far away. I thought it may be powers of the super special units there.

1 Like

Now this happens also to me for the first time, but it was a very special Triton I never saw before.

I also mentioned it in the tread where I report on my extra long campaign:

Edit:
I cleared the first chamber of the final mission and also the two Chirons in the final Chamber. The Priest / Infiltrator didn’t shoot, was not revealed and only moved closer to the gate. The big end boss was also not active because I didn’t cross the magic hidden line of the gate from which on he starts to do his Mark of the Void.

For me it cannot be explained logically, except that the AI cheats every now and then. Otherwise, that never happened to me and I really use Infiltrators a lot. Usually I can get them very close to opponents (> 5 tiles) without them noticing my Infiltrators.

I would still think this is probably a bug and not a cheat… there are no cheats in PP for the cpu that I’m aware of.

I guess the AI does cheat - we were talking in another thread about the stuck worms bug, and if the bugs must know if a path exists between them and the player to keep from auto exploding, they’ll always know the player location.

Unless, of course, this is used only by the test itself and not by the AI.