The grenade launcher seems to be pretty weak.
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Well it does a good job of shredding armor.
Thereās more, the point is a full Heavy armor is 30% aiming penalty, thatās a lot. But even with no aiming penalty/bonus itās already a lot more playable, same for only 10% Aiming bonus.
This means that thereās a lot more variations to make a Heavy more playable. It depends of whatās available and what armor.
For skills thereās only Cautious, but for armors thereās a lot more:
- Assault Syn armor set have all aiming bonus.
- Technician armor set have all aiming bonus.
- Sniper PP/NJ/Syn armor set have all aiming bonus, and offer different balances of armor/aiming/stealth.
- Some mutation have aiming bonus.
Another point, Cannon range isnāt that huge, think you canāt use at as an SR, you need shoot from closer.
Perhaps but, I suspect you underestimate head armor and perhaps legs armor. Body is the most important and seems even linked to arms. But head if often the most exposed part when you are in cover. Thereās also high covers that will tend expose head not only to shoot but also to Return Fire because the cover allowed not side step.
For legs Imā less sure, I thought it was helping to walk in fire, but I donāt know.
If the full armor set of Heavy is counter productive because of 30% aiming penalty, an Heavy with only 2 Heavy armor parts can work fine, for example:
- Body and Head Heavy armor, Leg mutation 20% Aiming bonus (and good armor).
- Body and Head Heavy armor, Syn Sniper legs.
- Body and Leg Heavy Armor, Cautious skill, and many Helm choices.
- Body and Leg Heavy Armor, Syn Sniper helm.
- Many more.
EDIT: Moreover if the Heavy body armor is very attractive for Heavy, it is a bit less for another class because the Jetpack with fumble a bit too often, itās ok but more for the armor. It means that use Heavy head or leg armors can be interesting options for other classes.
Currently doing a Full NJ campaign. I have 4 heavies (carefully selected, not yet level 7), 3 assaults and 1 sniper (+ an other heavy in training).
I have dressed them in NJ Anvil gear and currently going through everything easily. Jetpack + bash and a little war cry if necessary.
I go for 30 strength, so I have heavies with 300 HP, very good armor, Fury, Goliath and medkits.
2 of them got āmelee specialistā and ārecklessā perk and deal 300 damage (before armor) when bashing.
Such a bash will most likely daze the target if it is not killed.
I still have to go through my first lair, which will be in 2 days cause I wonāt be able to play tomorrow (hockey night, also in armor hitting targets and bashing, but with a stick).
Iāll see how it goes against Sirens and Chirons. Iām not afraid of the queen, I can rage burst it from afar.
I need to add a technician to the team for even more armor and a heavy priest mostly for last mission.
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If I give a Heavy every armour parts of the Sniper, will he be as accurate as a sniper with his cannon?
the main problem from my point of view: armor has limited use for the player, the pandoran faction has only 2 units that are really affected by it, and 1 comes with innate shred and is already very powerful (crab MG) or because it uses human weapons (triton)
the NPC factions suffers from very weak, often 1 or 2 shot-able troops. so even though you have armor, you are essentially making the factions that where already barely a threatā¦a non threat. this is the biggest advantage armor actually hasā¦its effectiveness against human factions (provided weapons like the pistol, PDW and AR remain as anemic as they are now and the shotgun doesnāt get buffed too much, and they also rain as prominent in use as they are nowā¦keep in mind it does little against furys and sniper rifles)
Armor protects against explosives, but limbs have little HP and tend to go down from crab nades or chiron blasts regardless.
Armor protects against fire, and since fire damage is capped at 40 you can be immune to burn damage (but not the blast and burn damage combo that is applied when a worm detonates itself, or a purifier grenade explodes). however, only the fire worm applies this condition in the pandoran factionā¦a 50HP unarmored pandoran, and the fire resistant vest can be used to make any trooper wearing NJ sniper gear immune to burn in almost the same fashion
very few skills boost armor, the one that does boosts it by a flat countā¦so it matters less if you went in with 14 or with 40. no random skills affect player armor. so there is no way other then will spamming reinforced armor by technicians to get numbers large enough to ignore pandoran melee.
This doesnāt make stacking or building for armor very attractive, nor does it make having very little punishing. building armor is even less interesting when you sacrifice accuracy and speed to do so, as the latter are often much more desired stats then armor. now this doesnāt mean you canāt get armor to āworkā its just thatā¦wellā¦compared to a strongman+reckless assault/berserker raging around with a deceptorā¦the āI have 40 armor as wellā would be the least interesting aspect of said buildā¦and some would even say dumb if he where to sacrifice speed for it.
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not as accurate as a sniper rifle with the hell cannon, weapon have an effective range stat that is effectively their accuracy stat (sniper rifles tend to be in the 50ās and the hellcannon has 16). but a heavy in a sniper gear has the same accuracy as a sniper in sniper gear, so they have the same accuracy provided everything else is the same.
Heavy in NJ Anvil armor has -30% aim, in Synedrion Acheron armor he gets +50%.
So in Synedrion sniper armor your 50% circle becomes your 100% circle (even a bit smaller).
If you use the āStomper Legsā mutation you can even have +55% aim.
Wellā¦ i think exactly the opposite. Heavies even not multiclassed are fantastic.
Warcry can neutralize several enemies. All enemies with 3AP only capacity are just hard cc. Ennemies with 2ap shots will be hard cc if they have to move. Try to play your soldiers with 2 ap per turnā¦
Boomblast with fury and explosive weapon is powerfull.
Rage burst even nerfed is good. Use it with NJ machine gun at short range in the early gameā¦
Multiclass options are really good. Assault give you mobility ans retaliation shot. Sniper give you better long range options. Berserker give you armor piercing, mental immunityā¦
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I didnāt multi-class my heavies. However I did multi-class some of my assaults to heavy if they had good perks for it (and didnāt give them dash to save on skill points).
Heavies are fantastic once you reach war cry.
+1 Heavy and Sniper are the top 2 classes, Heavy only need be a bit more inventive on armors used.
And they are also great second class fitting well Assault, Berzerk, Infiltrator, Heavy and Sniper.
Tech and Priest are a bit special, they are unique and tactically powerful, but they arenāt the core. A good example is Priest control without killing first many enemies to low down enemy will, is a crap skill. Or turrets are very powerful but also quickly destroyed, they canāt replace soldiers doing really serious damages and kills.
Also donāt be afraid to give them weapons they arenāt proficient with. A Heavy/Sniper can jump jet to a position, hit Quick Aim, and take a shot with an AR or Shotgun in the same turn. With two Quick Aims I think they can even jump, fire their mounted weapon for free, and still take a shot.
You just have to think outside the box.
Nah, just use soldiers with relevant out of class proficiency.
A fumbler causes only 75% damage on average (25% fumble), a soldier with relevant perk does 120-125% (bonus damage). More than 1.5x better.
You can fumble only melee weapons (following a release note for the game).
Lack of proficiency prevents you from āreturning fireā, and perhaps comes with an aim penalty. But you can use weapons without fumbling. Thatās why my heavies have pistols or even PDW once Iāll get the āGorgon Eyeā.
For someone just starting the game itās interesting that people in this thread are holding so many different and often completely contradictive opinions. Either half of you are just dead wrong, or the game must be actually very well balanced and allow multiple viable and effective ways to develop, equip and use a class xD
Didnāt quote, thatās important, and even if I rarely used non proefficient weapons, I never noticed fumble, unlike for jetpack for which it seems frequent, and Tech arm skills that seems also fumble rather often. I stopped try much rather fast with Tech arms, tried more with jetpack but ended disgusted and stopped it fully.
Balanced isnāt the word, itās this game is just amazing on the number of tools and possibility, games like XCOM1&2 are just ridiculous in comparison on this aspect. In fact all tactical games but Final Fantasy Tactics are ridiculous in comparison and perhaps a few clones too as Fell Seal Arbiterās Mark too for example. And in fact for equipment, even FFT and clones canāt compete on amount of choices with PP.
Iād say only RPG can compare with PP on that aspect and beat it from far. But almost all of them have lower tactical values, thereās a few exceptions but itās rare, and often itās systems with plenty OP holes, which is fine for many RPG players as soon as they require complex builds they can be proud of.
So ignore an efficient option, doesnāt matter, and use weapons without the proeficciency is an excellent example. Thereās personal skills that open extra weapons proficiencies, and even if those personal skills are random, you hae a total freedom for second class or even no second class, that is you have many build opportunities to use weapons that arenāt for a class. A good example is assault with skill giving ability to use heavy weapons and with increased damages at price of a big hit on perception (should hurt RF and overwatch).
DIdnāt know that.
Though itās still unclear whether there is an aim penalty for lack of proficiency or not.
Does it though? Return fire/Overwatch with anything but sniper rifle from too far will just waste ammo.
On the other hand willpower penalty on Sniperist is really heavy, and makes it single most expensive perk (once you figure in the cost to buy back lost willpower)
Yes thereās one, I remind some players compared the aimed circles, but I donāt remind their estimated result.