Mmm, I see your point. It’s wrong that only SR is valid for RF/Overwatch.
Base perception for soldier is 35, a skill can increase it to 10 and another lower it of 10. Some armors lower it (Heavy) and some armors increase it.
Let say 35 becomes 25.
AR case:
Range is 12 for RF, mmm 12 seems more than enough for Shotgun/Machine Gun, ok for AR and Cannon, longer shouldn’t be that efficient.
This let the Deimos AR with 41 range. It has the problem of only 30 damages. With Reckless and Trooper it’s 50% more damages for no aiming penalty. So 45 damages. With Bloodlust (wrongly nerfed) there could be a bit more bonus from damages triggering the RF, let say 10% and about 50 damages.
In this specific Deimos+Skills case the -10 perception is damaging RF. For other case I don’t see the problem but I feel reality of the game doesn’t match those numbers.
For Overwatch:
I don’t know but I think 100% perception is used.
It means 25 range, again I see no problem but for the AR special case I quoted above.
There’s also the Biochemist skill, it should apply right after RF and overwatch that is at end of enemy turn so before your turn coming. It’s a bit borderline, and more clearly useful only with shotgun and machine gun but both have low range so no impact.
Not sure that Sanctifier worth the consideration, to see. If really useful it would be hurt a little for RF not for overwatch.
Overall number show you are right for most cases it’s neglectable, but I feel numbers are wrong for both cases RF and overwatch but I don’t see from what come the range difference between those numbers and RF/Overwatch apparent ranges in game.
It’s totally weird that RF can trigger 5 times in a turn on a Heavy shooting his Hel Cannon that normally can fire only once per turn. Also pointless because he misses all those shots. RF should be an ability that you activate when you want it, like Overwatch. Not one that is always active. And it shouldn’t trigger more than twice per turn. A heavy weapon will not suddenly magically have ten times the firing rate.
I think that heavy weapons (not just category of heavy weapons but all weapons that weight above 3) shouldn’t benefit from Return Fire. So 0 (“ZERO”) shots not 2 as you propose.
I would make it to work differently than Overwatch. Return Fire should give you stance to select like Stability Stance with Stomper Legs. So you activate or disactivate this skill.
While game balance > realism, there are limits to this. If soldiers can obviously bend time, this destroys the immersion and the fun, unless the game has a fantasy story where the soldiers explicitly have magical abilities and can actually bend time.
And it also defies logic that a soldier is compelled to return fire on every shot after acquiring the RF ability. What, he now has a mental affliction that forces him to shoot back at everything even if it makes no sense and just wastes ammo?
No it’s wrong game design, realism cannot be the single point of consideration of design, any game is totally unrealistic, it means that a gameplay arguing using only realism aspect is plain wrong or at least incomplete. Consequences on gameplay ar ignored with such arguing, it’s wrong gameplay design.
I agree that in gameplay design a part is to make it feel more realist, but not to make it more realist.
Your arguments have no gameplay design consideration. In Ultimate Space Commando, overwatch isn’t limited to a single shot, and no way it makes overwatch op, at reverse it’s great shooting gameplay.
With your realism argument you’ll remove quick aim, Rapid Clearance, Rage Burst is quite questionable particularly how it is pictured, Overwatch will disable fully RF, Adrenalin Rush makes no sense either, many more.
This is a false arguing or it will totally destroy the current gaemplay.
EDIT:
Moreover I don’t see clearly how a soldier can survive that many RF, with luck I’d say 3, at 4rth and before it’s more a dead soldier. The unlimited RF is pure theory, I don’t see it ever be more shoot than Rage Burst.
The Heavy was my single most important squad member. With the Level 8 Rage Burst skill, combined with a Deceptor Machine Gun, he can deal 2400 damage if every one of the 60 bullets land a hit. This means at point blank range, the Heavy is the only one that can take down a Scylla with a single attack.
Additionally, you can use your Sniper’s Mark For Death skill on the Scylla for an additional 50% damage. If your Heavy happens to have Strongman skill, that’s another 30% damage - the perception loss is inconsequential in this case. By using either skill, combined with Rage Burst, a Scylla with full health is guaranteed to die. The only caveat is that your Heavy must be standing directly next to the Scylla, and aim for a body part that doesn’t jiggle around. From my experience, choose the leg.
The effectiveness of this tactic is amplified by having at least 2 of your Assault members use Rally skill. So by gaining an additional 2 Action Points, your Heavy has a total of 6 AP. You can jump jet directly in front of the Scylla and use Heavy Burst to kill it immediately. Ensure your Deceptor MG has a full magazine though.
Yes Heavy/Berzerk/Strongman can be very powerful, but no Dash, no Rapid Clearance, no rapid reload or more limited for weapon/healing, and requires a fairly high will, 10 WP just for one powerful attack RB/AB, and 12WP with Jump, without to mention, and what after, in middle of enemies most often.
I had an Assault/Berzerk/Strongman in previous campaign and in current, both using also Machine Gun, cool but failed found how make them almost OP. The Machine Gun is very close range, you can’t use constantly Armor Break, you need often use Dash, and you can’t use often Rapid Clearance or Adrenalin Rush, even less use both but rarely.
Strongman with Machine Gun is definitely something, but Berzerk could not be the best base choice even if at first it looks obvious because of AB and AR.
A heavy in Anvil armor has lots of armor.
Combine this with a technician providing +20, that’s 60 armor for the torso.
Put lots of points in strength for your heavy, so he has lots of HP (and does enormous damage on “bash”).
Use war cry to halve enemies usable APs (no sniper triton, no Chiron bomb, a chance that AI decides that Arthron’s gun is not worth it and grenades you for minimum damage).
Siren mind-control ? Not that bad and if you have the skill points dual class to berserker to make him immune.
When he kills he earns your squad WP. He is the only unit (bar berseker) who can go multiple shots in a turn. He can use boom to hit areas anywhere on the map with grenades and rockets.
Is there any Heavy skill to not pick? I wonder. Ok you could want save some global skill points and give up on this or that, but in general I don’t see any Heavy skill to give up. Perhaps Brawler if you target longer range position for the soldier.
For other classes it’s not that obvious for me:
Assault, I see two skill you could not pick. RF by choice, typically a less exposed soldier less front. RC because it’s not fitting any build.
Infiltrator, without details, Surprise Attack, Spider Drone Pack, even Deploy Decoy.
Berzerk, Close Quarters Evade, Bloodlust, Ignore Pain.
Priest, Mind Sense, Psychic Ward.
Sniper, Mark for death because it’s team wide and some other soldiers can provide it.
Technician, turrets skills for a multi class build not using turrets.
I’m not saying those skills don’t worth be picked, only that some roles or builds can make them enough minor to open the option to not pick them. That said, it’s certainly debatable.
EDIT: Well for Heavy, some build could want just ignore Boom Blast and never use grenades or grenade launcher.
It all depends on one’s main tactics. I tend to long range attacks, so having Boom Blast is a must. Grenades and Launcher along with mounted missiles are my bread and butter.
Long range explosives come in handy for softening up armor on Chirons before opening up fire with my Rage Burst Snipers. Long range explosives are very helpful dealing with “invisible” enemies (Tritons and Infiltrators). While one can’t aim at them with normal weapons (even though we know where they are by sound) - one can always lob them with long range explosives. Same goes for dealing with long range enemies like snipers and Tritons with sniper rifles. Always a good chance that an explosion will disable one of their arms, or once again shred armor for may sniper follow-up attacks.
Perhaps, Assault/Heavy will ignore much less other skills than Boom Blast, but ok it can be useful too. Heavy/Berzerk could give up the long range to focus more on using Adrenalin Rush, or perhaps not.
The advantage of Heavy/Berzerk is that he is immune to mind control.
And of course “armor break” and “adrenaline rush” … but it’s clearly a choice to use those for a heavy. Make the deceptor use 1AP only or have 50 shred on Fury, Thor or grenades…
Yeah looks a not that good idea to give up on GL with Heavy/Berzerk. In fact a question would be what skills to skip to save global skill points, but I think that most players don’t care much. And the game needs a tuning so they care more, as it’s choices, when picking everything isn’t really a choice, is one choice a choice, probably not.
In my restarted campaign I’m not dual-classing and my Heavies are almost useless so far because they just can’t get into the fight. Without Dash, Quick Aim or other non-heavy abilities, they can’t ever move and fire in the same turn. Jet-jumping close to an enemy is quite pointless if you can’t fire. The enemy will either be killed by another soldier before the Heavy gets the chance to fire, or will be left to do a lot of damage.
The only situation where the Heavy excels is on the defensive in close quarters. Like in a building where an enemy comes through a door just in front of the Heavy and gets blown to shreds.
In my first (partial) campaign I dual-classed, and also my Heavies randomly had innate abilities that made them proficient with handguns or assault rifles, that made them much more versatile.
You can still give them armour from other classes even if you don’t multi-class them. I can’t remember which but some of the Assault armour gives you a good speed boost (Anu I think), whereas the Heavy armour gives you a speed penalty. So swapping one for the other can increase your mobility hugely.