Free Aim change

[drages]

This is the problem. Someone just step forward and tell us what is their vision… what is PP? Not a “tactical TBS experience which everyone can play” non-sense… If you want a mobile style simple TBS with shiny things and power fantasy, I am totally okay and respect their decision… but tell us that so we just don’t burn our brains here for something we never will see…

[Nattfarinn]

@Rainer

Your arguments so far don’t hold up though, in my opinion.

Which ones?

• That this substitute of evasion is flawed, because only upper body “evades” and shooting foot is 100% accurate,
• Or some models idle animations make no difference so apparently they don’t evade at all,
• Or that once you learn animations and position yourself accordingly enemy doesn’t evade anymore and the simulation of “constant movement” is over, even if the positioning itself doesn’t explain why would they stop and is just addressing the animation,
• Or the part where model sometimes flinches backwards, regardless of fire direction, which is unpredictable outcome of predictable action unless you agree to deal with such flaw and treat is as “tactical” obstacle?

This doesn’t feel like evasion or even simulation of enemy being in constant movement. This is more of, more less, hidden chance to miss under some circumstances. And, in my opinion, not very tactical circumstances but rather technical related.

@Rainer

You have made it quite clear that you don’t like different.

Where did you get that from? I like consistent game mechanics, and it doesn’t have anything to do with such mechanic being fresh or not. I don’t think PP is a good hybrid of turn-based and realtime combat. It doesn’t mean I don’t like hybrid games: Frozen Synapse is such hybrid and, in my opinion, is one of the best tactical games ever. Don’t put a label on me.

@Rainer

Surprises aren’t inherently bad, but sometimes they can be awful. This mechanic was quite obviously an awful surprise. It was however, manageable, and did add something to the game.

For me, element of frustration. I know how to deal with it, but every single time I have to do, I feel like I am not playing against cosmic threat but exploiting game mechanics.

@drages

I still want to know the reason behind this choice. This animation movement was something SG stand being strongly for more then 1 years. As this is their vision, they wanted to have this and this is a characteristic detail of PP. A player should respect this as this is not a bug and there is a solid reason being it. You like or not, this is the game.

Just because something isn’t a bug doesn’t mean it is written in stone. You could try to defend every single non-bug change that way and with that kind of thinking we would still have ie. old scavenging missions. “this is their vision, they wanted to have this and this is a characteristic detail of PP”. How about “this is their vision, and they decide what is a characteristic detail of PP and what is not”?

[drages]

@Nattfarinn

How about “this is their vision, and they decide what is a characteristic detail of PP and what is not”?

Nop…

[Nattfarinn]

@drages

Nop…

Ah, OK. “Shut the f… up and don’t tell devs what to do unless you tell things I agree with in which case proceed and Thank You!”

[Wormerine]

@Omega

Nowadays, the claims for games that implement something other than standard XCOM elements are very high. Look at this forum, which element has not been criticised so far? Developers have a hard time with it.

Which could be a result of PP being sort of in the middle between OG UFO and FiraXCOM. There are players who would like it to be more like FiraXCOM and there are players who want it to be more like UFO. I enjoy PP the most in early game, when many skills aren’t available and the importance of distance of engagement, positioning and overwatch is the most fleshed out. Others might enjoy FiraXCOM-like skill spam, and in that moment things like ballistics and enemies dodging out of the way might be more annoying then interesting.

I do think, that Snapshot has a better chance rivaling Xenonauts then Firaxis though. Everysteps that brings PP to it’s mainstream competitor just makes me want to switch to XCOM2.

EDIT: I also finally installed and launched PP first time in a while. Too early to judge the new system as enemies are super squishy, but anyone who claims that framerate in turn-based game is not relevant is a dummy.

[drages]

You asked me and I said no… should I agree with you? I don’t say anything to you… you can of course tell your vision of it… I just disagree with yours.

[Nattfarinn]

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t disagree with you liking, or not, the change. I disagree with argumentation that just because devs did something, it is automagicaly sancted and touching it would be blasphemy against the very existence of the game itself. You may not like some changes and like other ones, but the game will change nonetheless. Some of us will ask for changes, some of us will be against some changes, but it is up to devs to decide what and how will change.

[drages]

@Nattfarinn

I disagree with argumentation that just because devs did something, it is automagicaly sancted and touching it would be blasphemy against the very existence of the game itself.

Just not… even It’s opposite of that. The problem is there is already tons of things which needs to change to fix/balance the game but they did not work on them but this. Do not worry, I am one of most change asking people…

[Nattfarinn]

@drages

The problem is there is already tons of things which needs to change to fix/balance the game but they did not work on them but this.

You can’t be sure they don’t. I guess that one was just low hanging fruit, and other fixes/balancing/new dlc features are still in progress. Sometimes it may give false impression nothing else is going on and team is wasting time doing unimportant things nobody asked for. I still have faith in the team, even if I have almost completely lost faith in game.

[Rainer]

@drages

So the question is why? What did SG expect with this? More sells? Less refund? Massive positive at steam rating? Was it worth for losing a part of soul?

I hear ya. About the only reason I wrote so many responses so far to be honest.

@Wormerine

I do think, that Snapshot has a better chance rivaling Xenonauts then Firaxis though. Everysteps that brings PP to it’s mainstream competitor just makes me want to switch to XCOM2.

Ha. You too, huh? I used to want to mod WotC to feel more like the original Xcom, but then I heard of PP being a spiritual successor to the original Xcom so I held out and waited. I’ve been debating which is more worth it now, with a slight leaning to PP still simply because of the Free Aim mechanics… some of which are now being removed.

@Nattfarinn

I have almost completely lost faith in game.

I love that despite how much we all can disagree on so many things, that so many of us seemingly kind of lean in this direction.

Kinda just suggests to me that the more important problems are going routinely ignored, and that small tweaks in difficulty aren’t the problem. Because even if a game is Dark Souls difficult, players can adapt and learn. However, players can’t find any way to make sense of Diplomacy, endless defenses/colonies late game, the worst concept of a base defense I’ve ever seen, or the repetition of various maps with the unique ones all seeming a lot like the generic ones, or the large amount of VERY SPECIFIC, generic and somewhat useless Perks (cross-classing fail) beside incredibly overpowered ones … without simply not playing (or cheating/massively modding).

Perhaps they’ll learn something useful from that recent survey.

[sectoid_br]

I’m not been much active here for some time now but this one’s got my attention… I’ve even read all of @Rainer’s encyclopedias instead of sleeping as I should

While I won’t enter the debate much, I’ll say that I see valid points in both sides. HOWEVER, to me this mechanic was FUN and I want it back, so +1 to team “change it back or give me the option”!

I’ll also give a short version of my life with it:

• first (partial) campaign, why does snapshot mode exists? This is just for noobs, aiming mode is just better and more fun! It just sucks that I lose all those shots because of enemy movement though, I wish this enemy movement thing didn’t exist
• second partial campaign, got to forums and read uv’s explanation: hmmm OK whatever, nice idea but bad implementation, it sucks.
• thid partial campaign, found out in forums that snapshot mode that I never ever used after the first time, tracks movement. FUUUUU now I like it!

So it is a choice and while I agree with @Nattfarinn about its flaws, I also agree with @Rainer that its fresh and less boring. I specially like the siren trying to protect its head.

Also, Rainer brought a very valid point with flying enemies. I have an old canny ticket about them, and I’ve said there basically the same thing: it would be great to have a flying siren, as it would be lighter, lesser armored, but much more difficult to shoot in the head because of its movement while flapping wings. It would be much, much more interesting than the golden siren, for example (which I found very lazy, one more armored version of an existing enemy… hated it).