Feedback Suggestion: Reduce Accuracy, Add Fire Modes

Complained about this back in backers build, seeing as not much changed, I don’t think devs really care or have resources to do any of that. Adding magical abilities is much easier than implementing things like smoke grenades or firing modes.

The problem with being attached to soldiers is that it leads to all or nothing tactics where even heavy injuries are good reason enough to reload. If you lose your soldiers and continue playing, then its your own peril as you can hardly recover from loosing soldiers. It becomes a game of going around with an A Team to solve all missions. No deep management of training or injuries, no heroes who sacrifice their life to save others. Moreover it creates an non-congruent experience of the world where loss of human life is suppose to be a common occurrence, where hundreds or thousands of survivors are fighting against hordes of pandorians, but in reality it’s about 6 dudes with guns kicking everyone’s ass.


You won’t stand this really long i think ^^

6 dude around the world will explode in your face really soon if you can’t expand your active strike force ;p.

I have 3 full 8 slot team atm that move constantly around the glob fighting and progressing, and it’s barely enough to maintain the deathcounter at reasonable levels :stuck_out_tongue:

Loosing a lvl 7 character is definetly an issue, for sure but honestly, it’s not 1 / 6 dude for long, it’s like one from the 24 member of the main roaster, that are already replacable with guys that wait patiently in a base that stack training facilities.

On top of that, it becomes very similar to some other game we all know and that game did way more features related to team management and has some mods that can push it even further. But regardless.

A good game can become great game by removing features and polishing those which are left. But those core features have to lead to an interesting varied gameplay where your decisions actually matter. I’m not sure if anything changed but flourish of perks starting from backer build 4 turned this game from something tactical into “race to level 6” as fast as possible and then all problems will be solved.

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To be clear, I figure we should keep the perks in PP, the game is designed around them. But we probably should reduce their prevalence and OPed nature. Perks can be good, but these ones need a lot of work.

I’ve talked here and there about how perks can be rebalanced, I don’t consider it hard. I figure make Willpower work like Morale, as it kind of sort of does already, just that it randomly works as a Mana Bar too, often unnecessarily (it already costs 3 AP to use Jump Jets, no need for it to cost 2 WP as well).

Xenonauts had some issues, mods made it a lot better. Once the combat felt like a hot LZ in Vietnam, then every fight was engaging.

I worry the same. Going to wait around for modding tools and patches before I sink any serious time into the game. Hopefully the Devs pull a No Man Sky and overhaul this, as it does have potential.

Strangely, though, my suggestions of firing modes and your smoke grenades would not be any harder than silly abilities, it might be easier even. A lot of Devs get stuck in their own heads, and get busy with other things, so don’t fix obvious bugs.

Just wanted to say I agree with your whole post. No need to quote it all.

Though, honestly, with upgrading stats and just getting attached to a set of characters you have, I sometimes loaded the game even though it didn’t matter. It’s fun to name the characters after ones you actually care about.

It’s good that the cost of losing guys isn’t too high. But… the cost of having to learn a new set of 30 perks would be a huge turn off for me. Easier to reload the game at that rate.

I’m kind of shocked that developers behind the original Enemy Unknown would resort to such lazy rubbish. Maybe they should just scrap this willpower perks system, and return to earlier versions?

Why? Could you elaborate on this?

You’ve mentioned in another thread that your playtime is about 25 hours, we’ve spent hundreads and thousands of hours in backers builds providing feedback to improve this game. I don’t need to put another 100 in to see that previous issues are still there as they are coming from the core design and not some small tweaks here and there.

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I speaked about 25 hours in release build only, i can’t tell about the earlies backer builds as regardless i had crowfunded the game i wasn’t caring about epic launcher and just played backer builds “another way” humpf. But probably have at least a undred hour with bb 4 & 5, far less with earlier builds.

What i mean is that ennemy will start to stack HP and armor, far more than in bb5. If you don’t complete enough mission, raise higher diplomacy, and defend enough havens in time, you’ll end up having to deal with 80% ennemy having 30 and more armor AT minimum on every part, therefore making almost impossible to deal with them with most repeating riffles. And you’ll definetly have enough explosives for lowering all of them :stuck_out_tongue: Meaning you’ll need corroding stuff, or new jericho weapons etc, but also anu prist and stuff etc, the sooner the better. Ity’s possible with a single ship i guess, but at the cost of ignoring a lot of other events.

Then the mist expand, and the ally bases raided are more and more frequent, even if you clean bases. If you let them expand, sometime they attack the other side of the planet, even the fastest deployment vehicle can’t reach the haven in time. So you have to have teams scatered around the globe to defend and destroy ennemy base, on top of the main team that try to push through the “story”. ^^

Your weapons are not as relevant as this game is about abusing combination of perks:

Having multiple teams to cover other parts of the world have nothing to do with battle casualties and attrition.
How is more hp make it any different from BB5? This would have effect only if you don’t use perks properly and to have proper perks you have to keep your team alive - which leads to all or nothing strategy. Of course you can ignore that, but it’s clearly not what they game wants you to do.

In old x-com there was a very simple principal - most of your early hires will perish, maybe 1 out of 7 or 10 will survive till the end game and that’s how you get your A Team for a finale of the game, not for early midgame. Loosing your soldiers was a part of the development strategy overall as it gives you a “statistical” indicator if you are moving in a right direction. You would flip their weapons and armor almost every mission. There are mods for OpenX-Com like XFiles that add all the personality that was missing in original X-Com and you can save scum to save characters that are dear to you, but the game itself is not build around keeping a Joe from a tutorial mission till the end game or you will have a hard time.

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yes, and no. i do use the upside strat on one of my sniper, with upgraded riffles, while i prefer the priest with +2 will per turn perk so i can abuse the double shot for 2 ap each (less overall dps for sure but making able to take down severall ennemy (or ennemy important part) per turn)

Some ennemy start to have 30 - 40 armor at minimum, i’m sure they’ll go higher soon, if you only use the starting gear, even considering you have a lvl 7 sniper multiclassed with heavy, you’ll do 6 ammo dealing 60 - 70 damage each and it’s over. not even enough to one shot a siren. And i frequently cross the path of 3 - 4 sirens, not even speaking about chirons that fire from across the map ^^

Without a proper way to disable armor or penetrate it, it’s gonna be an issue soon ^^

I have to admit to not liking these suggestions in the original topic - not only are the proposed changes turning PP into the original UFO - it’s also frustrating as hell to constantly miss. It took a while to get used to the firing system in PP, but now I’m used to it I (personally) prefer it.

Let’s not turn it into another clone.

Don’t go crazy, it all depends on the point of view. There is such an interesting animation, as if this helmet performs calculations to help in the shot.

So, computers powered by human sanity? Human fear? It’s equivalent to one of your friends dying, so if the game’s lore had computers powered by energy from your very mortal soul, that might make sense. In reality, it’s just a poorly thought out gimmick.

Low accuracy and firing mods do not make a game a clone of UFOD. Research, fighting alien terror missions, building bases around the globe, and various other details DO make this a clone, or rather an example of the genre.

It’s far more frustrating to have cover be useless in combat, when cover is the cornerstone of squad tactics. If you want to hit your enemies, use aimed shots from reasonable range. Automatic fire from across the map should not be accurate.

All depends on the point of view
The augmented reality is displayed on the helmet display, controlling your gaze you lose concentration and weaken the connection with reality. For example :nerd_face:

Specifically, my point of view on balance was here

In the current game, there is no way to make “Legend without SuperHeroes” so as not to break the content for the mass player. And this is a problem that should be discussed, IMHO.

That explanation doesn’t sound connected to reality. If you need to work out an explanation THAT convoluted, you have a bug, not a feature. Unless the feature is working out complex reasoning for absurd features (Return Fire fans certainly have).

The current balance is one broken system trying to counteract another broken system, thus creating an even worse mess. Everyone from beginners to veterans are complaining about it, for that reason.

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I will take a break from our discussion.

It’s no problem, no need to ask permission. People can come and go as they like. Plus, Christmas is coming up. No one is going to have time for this. Even the Devs need to have Christmas, instead of worrying about the game.

Here is the thing: firing modes already exist: they are called weapon types! They are distributed in pretty much similar way to how UFO firing modes would work.

Edit: reducing accuracy won’t change anything - the fight will simply take place on shorter distances. Add aiming system, and things will go back to normal, with a regular use or aimed shot. That’s the “downside” of predictable hit system: you will always operate on distances were you will hit reliably - both for player and enemies.

That’d only make sense if you could carry three or four weapons with you. In UFOD, if you had a rifle, you could use burst fire at close range, snap and regular shots at mid range, and aimed shots at long range. One soldier has three ranges of engagement, with three unique sets of characteristics.

In PP, you use ONE type of shot at ONE range.

No, that would clearly only happen some of the time. If you get close to the enemy, he is close to you. If you can shoot him in the head, he can shoot you in the head. Sometimes that suits you, if you can overwhelm them suddenly. Other times, you will prefer long-ranged skirmishing and suppressing fire.

Would it? Outside sniper rifle, weapons are ineffective at long range. Yet, my guess would be that you come closer to take a shot. I am convinced same would happen if accuracy would be reduced - ammo is to valuable to waste it like that, and it’s better to cripple the enemy, then let him come closer and take a shot. With dash getting in and out is not a problem (which is a problem within itself but there was enough said about it already).

As to limiting amount of weapons one can carry: that’s very much intentional. Not every soldier is do be effective at different range of engagement. In UFO that was determined by more gradual character stats - characters with high aim were likely to stay in the back and use aim shots, character with lots of AP would come close and use autoshots etc. In FiraXCOM and PP it’s determined by class and equipment.

Ammo is cheap, carry a few extra clips (yeah, I call them clips, so come at me magazine-fanboys). Right-arm sniping is another bug of the game, but reducing accuracy would help as it makes it harder and more risky to perform the exploit.
Certainly, my suggestions for fixes won’t cure secondary bugs. If Dash is dumb, reducing accuracy doesn’t necessarily fix that.

In UFOD, or its spiritual successor Xenonauts, you tend to give sniper rifles to your most accurate troops, and shotguns to your least accurate. ARs are cool in that they have the most dynamic range of any weapon. Still, skeet shooting with shotguns is a thing, so variable fire ranges still exist.

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