I’m worry on the number of thread that request simplifications, remove RF, remove crabs with big AR, remove penalties to RB, simplify Cheron bombing; more.
That’s weird, can’t people consider problems as elements to manage and resolve?
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Some really good suggestions here that keep RF but give it a proper use. Something you can add to your tactical house keeping note book.
RF is good but it needs a collar and lead.
What I suggested weren’t simplifications - they are mechanics that add more strategy to the game. If RF only works in the front 90deg arc, it encourages the player to try to flank the enemy. In turn, this may help deter the turtling/alpha strike gameplay.
One thing that really worries me is the posts ignoring bugs with abilities like it… such as the return fire icon not always showing. It might be a distance issue, it might just be that the arthron spins when hit and returns fire, or some other issue i have yet to encounter. Just cause it doesn’t happen to you personally doesn’t mean there aren’t things wrong with an ability. Pretending everything is fine as is and doesn’t need fixed doesn’t do anyone much good here. Wanting an ability balanced and working as described (an icon for return fire that actually shows up!) shouldn’t be something to worry about or be called wanting simplification.
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Sure, bugs are bugs and need to be squashed. Though as I understand it’s best to report them with F12.
In any case, all discussion is welcome. And we are not deciding anything by committee here - the devs will do what they feel is right.
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Crabe RF van be dangerous but you have so many way to prevent it. It’s just a part of the game really…
My favorites one are priest panic, explosive and sniper shoots from afar. With a good precise shoot you can often remove the arm. As long you keep your distance it will be ok…
The return fire is a pain, and has been since the BB that introduced it. The best advice I can give you is to always fire from cover AND use your heavies first. If your soldier is in cover there is less chance of the return fire landing hits.
Also if you use your heavies first, the return fire does less damage to them. Hopefully by the time you get you using your other soldiers, the aliens will be one-shotable and they can’t fire back if dead!
This… The always mind control your best or strongest unit. When a sniper or heavy with the HellCannon gets MC’d you are basically screwed to kill the Sciren. By the time the remainder of your team have dropped it, they are so beat up by your own soldier there is not much left.
SPEAKING OF FAIR…
I have a mission to rescue a soldier from a haven. In the first turn of that mission, no matter where I move that soldier, the enemy focus fires and kills him every time without fail. There is no cover, direction or tactic I have found to get beyond the first turn without him dying!
This game has massive potential but there are several things that need to be rethought and redone.
Nobody is pretending there’s no bugs to fix, common.
But fix missing RF icon isn’t nerf or remove RF.
The current state isn’t good at all, with serious problems with the auto scaling, it pushes many players streamline the game. But it’s not simplify this aspect or that aspect that will fix an auto scaling going wild.
Moreover even players playing at max difficulty don’t think one second they should lower difficulty if they find the game too hard. And they don’t because of the auto scaling. But even if Im’ totally sure it can go wild at Easy, I’m also pretty sure it’s easier at Easy than at Normal.
But this bad current state shouldn’t push simplify pointlessly the game.
High cover doesn’t work because it generates a side step in most cases, in fact some high cover won’t with some weapons types, but generally there’s a side step. Low cover is a better choice. I don’t remember if it’s fine for all weapons, at least from higher ground, low cover can be a problem and exploded by the Cannon. I think the flamethrower is also special.
From the simplest, return to cover before RF, to the more ambitious, cone of opportunity, which would encourage higher tactics but take more work to implement. All good ideas and all much better than the ‘make-do’ approach to RF we now have.
I’m sure the developers browse these forums, and posts like this at the very least, show the consensus on new and old ideas. All that’s left is if it’s possible to code into what must already be some complex code with bugs yet to fix.
Anyway, one thing I think we all have in common, is we all want PP to work and be successful.
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Add suppression fire with a cone requires make a clear distinction with overwatch. There’s a potential ambiguity. But the problem is certainly to design the AI.
I think RF is a very uncommon idea, but if you played JA, interception are right that. You move a step out of cover to get a great los, fire, get intercepted and enemy shot four times. You quickly learn stop do it past a point in the campaign, but also it’s linked to AP left so it allows use trick to try exhaust enemy AP or be sure no much are left.
But if RF is bizarre at end I see a good element to manage. For sure dev will see themselves, and for sure I have seen absurd dev changes from some players reactions, like Phantom Doctrine.
At some point dev are in ambiguity, do they know better what’s fun for players than players, this leads quickly to a slip, games done for majority, majority that prefer stick in tradition/convention and what they are used to.
I know they have changed the way RF worked at least once. Has it also been changed at any time with the BB?
Previous version of RF was totally insignificant I hardly ever noticed it. You was needing be in big troubles to suffer from it, that is many crabs around, close enough, and you jump in the melee, perhaps to try a kill chain.
At opposite previous version of RF was a lot more interesting to exploit for players. Now it’s more a decision to not use overwatch on a soldier, it’s a bit basic.
There is a lot of stuff that’s unfair in PP especially when they throw it at you by the bucket load, but for the most part you can find a way to overcome. But this RF is a different type of unfair. You don’t expect to die just by taking your shot. It’s like the game having a 50/50 chance of you gun blowing up in your face.
As I have said, I don’t want RF removed, I would just like it reimagined. 
Not to go in circles, as we obviously don’t agree on this, but when shooting at someone who will shoot back you should expect that you can suffer injuries up to and including death.
However, have you ever tried using RF in your favor? For example, I had a situation where I had three crabs with shields almost in a phalanx. I couldn’t get through the shields so I mind controlled one of the crabs and shot the crap out of his buddies, with the bonus that they shot back at him.
I also want to try a heavy assault with boosted armor, just place him in the middle of a bunch of crabs and hit end turn.
I don’t carry pistols on missions anymore, instead I carry basic ares assault rifles with no extra ammo just to deal with mindfrages and worms. With pistol you can’t kill mindfrager in one turn and there if risk of return fire. Worms are hard to hit with pistol. Sometimes I have to fire pistol 3-4 times to hit it and with assault rifle it is usually instant kill with only 2 AP.
For the sirens you just have to disable its head and next turn it will lose control. For that you need only two sniper shots. I found that here on forum.
Paralyzed siren still keeps mind control though.
Do you mean:
- an assault
- in heavy armor
- with return fire
- and a hell-canon/deceptor/iconoclast … massive destruction
- with an armor boost from 1 or 2 technicians
Seems interesting … if he doesn’t get mind-controlled.
I think that with enough armor they can’t apply poison but I don’t have my Calc sheet with me to check.
I wonder if shredding applies first to the 20 added by the technician or your armor.
Yes 
Will need to take care of sirens first.
RF works with Hell Cannon? The big chain gun should do the job.
I have read that a few times here but in practice it doesn’t work! Twice a Siren has had control of 1 or 2 soldiers. I have focus fired on the head to disable it but the next turn my soldiers are still under control. The only way to remove the control is to kill the Siren. The first time I thought might’ve been a glitch, the second time, to me, confirms this doesn’t work.
Love those missions, reLlytime for your assault class to shine. Prisoner runs as far as he can towards your team, two assult dash as far as they can towards him. They then use two action points to get a little closer. Now if you have any troops with the skill to give an extra action point you fire them off. Now the two assult lob firebooms at the enemy. Emery turn they really mess up. If somebody is on fire they normally send somebody into the flames to first aid them. Then they send a second person to first aid the first aider who is now on fire. On one occasion I got two on fire, two ran in to first aid them, two more ran in to first aid the new two, and finally one more guy ran in to first aid one of the last two. Two became five in the fire. And while they were busy in the fire I was making a run back to the DZ making sure my higher hit point guys were further back than the extraction target. Fun times.