Return fire fail

Enemy return fire is stupid. They should only be allowed return fire once per turn. To return fire on every one that fires on them that turn is ridiculous.
This alone puts me off playing the game. The logic of it just doesn’t sit well at all.

3 Likes

How about the Assault’s “return fire” skill? Is it the same? Then it’s fair.

3 Likes

You think so? They used to respond to every attack you made - you take a single shot, and get shot by every assoult in sight back.

It’s fine now. Just remember about it and think well on the shots you take. Try to disable their arms to prevent them from shooting back.

Also, consider a good spot to set up overwatch and take them out when they move.

Generally the Pandorans with return fire have very low hp and armor. If you need to hit them more then once to kill them you are either very unlucky or are doing something very wrong.

Things like shotgun, Hel II’s, all snipers etc etc can 1 shot those Arhtron’s and a AR in decent range is very likely to kill them as well.

good advices but I also think that Return Fire should be

  • disallowed for the character that has been attacked,
  • only his buddies who are nearby him should do that,
  • with half burst like it was in full release,
  • and only so many times, based on how much they had AP left in their turn (so >=2 AP then 1 return fire, 4 AP = 2 return fires in case of Arthrons, in case of enemy soldiers it would depend on weapon attack AP cost).

This also should apply to our soldiers.

2 Likes

Absolutely agree, RF is the worst. It exists outside space time of the turn based context and is just overall real cheesy. It discourages the use of medium ranged weapons while Snipers are already the way to go if you don’t brawl.

I hate it. Always hated it. Will always hate it. Unfortunately, most people seem to not mind it, though.

1 Like

I mean it’s crazy at the moment. It’s like the enemy has a free turn.
It’s not about getting around it or preparing for the eventuality. This mechanic should not be in the game as is. It’s daft and does not make any sense in as far as turn based is concerned. It’s as if they are trying to turn it into a semi real time game, a hybrid, a mess.
Return fire, yes. In the confines of sensibility, but not like this.

I started a new game to try out the DLC and generally to see how the game was progressing. The first mission and I had a taste of the return fire mechanic. That was it, I lost all interest in carrying on with my game.
Now I am going to have to buy Wastelands 3 or Gears tactics to scratch that itch. I’m burned out on Xcom-2 :frowning:

It was New Jericho first mission? Otherwise Arthrons with Return Fire are much later than first missions. :slight_smile:

It definitely need a change… i think it would suffice if its linked with remaining AP, and OW stance… you enter OW, you will return fire. you only fire as many times as you have AP left to make the shot.

1 Like

Wouldn’t it just make returnfire a worse version of overwatch?

Return fire is based one the perception. If you are out of range of the half of the enmies perception, the enemy does not return fire. For example if the enemy has 10 perception, return fire works 5 tiles.

Pandas usually have a very low perception, so returnfire is less an issue. You can check, if returnfire is active, if you go into targeting mode and the returnfire symbol appears. Now you can react to this info by increasing the distance to the target, or kill it in melee. Returnfire does not work agains melee attacks.

2 Likes

Yes, I guess this is the most annoying aspect of RF. They should at least tweak that mission. The WTF is strong in this one when you realize that the level one Assaults have a level 3 ability without showing that in their stats window.

I would not tie it to Overwatch.

  • With Overwatch I set soldier to defend specific area (and I would then disable Return Fire so soldier do one action OR the other).
  • With return fire I expect my soldier to react to any attack at friendly units no matter from where they come (so may be outside of overwatch cone), AND setting overwatch cone each turn would be little tiresome.
  • Return Fire should be activated ability like stances (so I can disable it if I don’t want my soldier to waste ammo in such way)
2 Likes

return fire should be extension of overwatch… with OW you react on enemy movement, with return fire, you fire at whoever in your field of view opens fire…

problem is, you do one or another, i would prefer doing both. because it doesnt make sense for soldier that is ready to shoot when he spots enemy to not shoot when enemy that is in his field of view fires at him…

Besides, Overwatch sometimes does react on enemy firing… when stepout from cover happens… but it is inconsistent… with Overwatch linked wiht Return fire, this would happen always.

Simplest solution would be if Overwatch was triggered by ANY MOVEMENT, and AIMING a weapon was considered a movement that activates it…

I think that unit should not return fire when he is under fire by enemy. It would be kind of suppresion.

For me Overwatch is to prevent enemy advancement. So it should not trigger when enemy is stepping out to get back behind cover again. :wink:

1 Like

but the guy on overwatch is steadying for enemy action… you see a guy in the distance, you aim rifle at him and wait what he will do… you see he rises his weapon? YOU SHOOT… you dont let him shoot you…

and that is exactly what needs to be happening when you use overwatch on somebody standing in the open… he rises weapon, you shoot him… you dont wait for him shoot at you…

Overwatch in Phoenix Point is extremely limited… You dont see what ground exactly will trigger it, if you stand behind high cover (point of view is set from position of soldier head, which is behind cover, instead of from stepout…)
You cannot tell if there is an obstacle in your view, because when you setting it up, you look at it from above, instead from aiming reticule so you commonly dont notice certain terrain features that will block the fire (like for example cometimes own cover absorbing the OW shot )

Plus, there are situations where enemy moves through the OW cone, but because own soldier animation is slow, he wont start firing until enemy is already pass the cone and safely behind another cover…

Overall, i find Overwatch in Phoenix Point the most frustrating mechanics right now…

Is RF really that much of a problem?

Whats the problem exactly? The damage as a reaction? Do you tickle enemies to death causing a RF enemy to waste half a squad?

Not trying to be coy here but I think the first RF enemy that I saw had like 70hp and no armor so im kinda confused how RF is a problem on such a fragile frame :confused:

I think the problem is that it’s turn based tactics and not a free for all. There has to be fast rules for it to be interesting tactically.
A point brought up was that a enemy that saw you about to shoot would attempt to fire back. Again it’s turn based combat, not real time combat. And if that was the case I would not give him chance to fire back I would pumping round after round into him which would put him on his ass.
Ha! I have took a shot at a enemy with his back turned, I shoot , he turns around and fires back. I mean please!