Chirons and Sirens balance

Bombardment Chirons with stability stand can just - a target i one shot from far away (and in a bonus -a weapon to another unit or leave bleeds to several more units which will force you to heal and try to survive until another bombardment) i dont know how i should counter it if i don’t have vision and they get alerted from far away somehow, this feels so broken. And Sirens even tho i can deal with them, they can come and mind control 2 targets, i thought mind control should cost 2 AP after nerf, but i have seen several times Siren taking 2 squad members after the nerf. It’s like i can trade one unit to be mind controled and then focus a Siren, but 2 mind controls often means that you don’t have enough fire power, because of the distance other units are and because of number of units you have. Often these cases are auto-loses even before you do anything and are so disapointing that i just close the game and go play something else. You really need to pay attention to a balance. In my opinion stability stand should be just removed and Siren mind control finally should be increased to 2 AP.

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Armor is very important in this game. If you use Anvil-2 armor you will laugh (kind of) at Chirons.

I never had a Siren mind-control 2 of my guys so I can’t say that it can happen. It would mean that it didn’t have to crawl far (less than 2AP) and had more WP than 2 of your soldiers (which is possible if you make heavy use of WP). I thought there was a limit to 1 MC anyway.
Sirens are there to force you use less WP (kind of). Behead them and no MC or psychic powers. You can’t prevent them from taking control of one soldier (unless you disable their head), but letting them control 2 means you use to much WP and should change your approach.

Are you going full squad Anvil-2? I thought the game has another armor for a reason and not limited to heavy by design. Anyway you will lack resources to supply everybody with the new armor, before you meet Bombarding Chirons.

I remove their head if possible, you kinda need accuracy and snipers for that, i don’t play more than 2 snipers. And not always you need to behead a Siren, sometimes you need to burst her with assaults and better to remove 1 claw than head, even if she doesn’t die you can finish her next turn and with 1 claw she will not be able to do too much damage, and if she hits assaults (which she often prefers) they will shoot back with a shotgun (meaning that she will most likely die while Pandoran move). 3 Assaults with shotguns and i ussualy don’t worry about a Siren. The problem is in information.

No, it doesn’t mean that, for example you can’t check all corners at the same time in the lair, if you find Siren fast then np, if you don’t you can be screwed. Or if you meet Chiron and try to fight it, it takes time, Siren can arrive where you are not waiting her because you are busy.

Also both times when i got double mind controled Sirens were 1 in the house (one next tome while i was in the open starting a mission and searching for a cover) another time behind the big house (with doors, where she can enter from another side). To spot her and play super save you need spent lots of WP and dash (opposite of what you say). I don’t waste so much WPs often and game rewards with “fun”.

And do you really play Anvil-2 snipers? To survive Chiron and to Behead Sirens? Don’t think you have enough accuracy then.

The problem is more in situation and the map which you are in, you can’t control the fight 100% of the times, often you need to react to the threat and you can play 99% good and in one mission because of the lack of information you get a surprise, either you save scumm or start another one, and you should agree with me neither is good. And some mission can be generated that you have to fight waves of pandorans and Chiron behind oneshoting your troops beeing out of line of sight.


Devs still working on balance, I hope the result would be easy is easy and hard is truly hard.

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I have problems with mortar Chirons too.

Don`t want to equip all my troops in NJ armour and there isn’t something like a hyperwave decoder to tell me, if I face them and adjust my troop strongly towards it.

That is why there should be limit of Chirons and Sirens at once available on the map - additional can be deployed as alien reinforcements. But my preferred change to them would be preparing more advanced mutations of Chiron and Siren and limiting their number overall (so deployed and in reinforcements) on the map.

I think that this stance is great way to increase Chiron performance, and it should be treated as advanced mutation. I would prefer only changing it little bit (like no additional projectiles and maybe lower accuracy bonus). And definitely I wouldn’t increase AP cost of Mind Control, 1 AP should be enough, but there should be delay when mind control happens (next turn - not the same) and Siren should have lower limit of WP like 25 max - damn I write it according to my balancing stats, so with current soldier WP levels it should be like 20 WP max).

This should be resolved be making recruitment more accessible, so losses on the mission won’t be so punishing. And as mentioned above game should deploy lower number of enemies but more powerful.

I agree. Recruits should be cheaper and easier to access.
Normal recruits like Assaults, Snipers and Heavys should be buyable in endgame too, to motivate taking losses and not savescum.

But still thinking:
Is there only one way to fight mortar Chirons and late game Heavies from NJ? The anvil armour?
I consider it unfair, that those just hit me in the face and I can`t do anything about it.

Having everyone in Anvil-2 armor was my easiest game ever.
The problem is how to decide to use other armors when a single Chiron or NJ heavy you hadn’t located can disable your team’s body parts.

Then already leveled troops, but still often either you easily win or things exponentially go wrong, meaning you loose 1 , maybe somebody looses a weapon, and the only option to save your troops is to run away.

I can confirm a single Siren can mind control two soldiers at once. Lose another one to a mind fragger and the entire squad will die as a consequence. Retreat doesn’t help much here either because you lose your best guys.

Yes, that is true, but not in the same turn.

I had situations with several mind controlled soldiers (actually, the one you describe but worse - 2 soldier controlled by one siren each and one by mindfragger, in a squad of 6 none of them above level 5) and came out of fine, no casualties. And I play on Hero and on this playthrough limiting myself to using each skill a soldier has only once per turn.

How? Use warcry to reduce APs of sirens and mindcontrolled soldiers by 2. Concentrate on disabling the head of one of the sirens. As long you have someone with anything other than AR one turn is enough. If you can also bash the mindfragger off, good. If not, not a problem - with only 2 APs not much the soldier can do.

Another thing that works but IMO is the AI being stupid and should be changed, is that if you mind controlled soldier has a medkit and you cause him bleeding (for example, because you try to remove the mindfragger and accidentally hit him in the head with a SR :sweat_smile:), he will use the medkit to heal himself. With that and warcry he will not have any APs left.

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What I meant was in the same turn and apparently Voland confirms this can’t happen. I thought I had read it in a release notes.

Good advice, but you can’t always do that. For instance, my heavy is almost always the first unit to be mind controlled, due to being out in front (jetpacking to high ground to get eyes on where the enemy is).

Anvil armor is the easiest option, but there are others. For example, on my first completed playthrough I relied on fast damage dealers with light armor - they can easily take care of Chirons on the first turn.

Another option is long range damage dealers (snipers, mainly) - Chirons are big, so they make for easy targets.

Yet another option is staying unrevealed until Chirons can be taken care of. Or in cover - Chirons have the same problems with trajectories and firing as Scarabs. And once they move twice, they can’t fire. (Which means they are also susceptible to paralysis from the Athena SR, and warcry).

Another easy option is just use technician’s reinforcement. You can even use it twice to basically make all your soldiers invulnerable for 1 turn (an exploit IMO, but if you are really having so much trouble with Chirons, an available option).

There are just so many things you can do, really…

And on the subject of sirens:

And why do you that? You can mix classes and skills as you want. If you want a jetpacking scout/long range damage dealer, why give him warcry? Why not give it to a fast heavy/assault CQC specialist? Or to a jetpacking basher (currently my favorite)? Also, heavy armor makes for terrible scouting - it has penalties to both perception and stealth.

You can see more enemies from the ground with a soldier with higher perception (and preferably higher stealth so that he isn’t spotted).

Cant confirm this. When i remember right in the moonshot Mission one siren looked through a hole in the building and mind controlled 2 of my soldiers in one turn… and iam pretty sure it was After the miskatonic patch…

I can confirm this. One Siren MCt 2 of my soldiers in one turn. But I must admit, that only happened to me once.

Yes. It was during my gamethrough also the First and only time it happend. I can remember that i must Kill the siren otherwise mind crush in the same Turn would hurt my soldiers. Just shooting the head dont release my soldiers in that turn.

I’ve had it happen on more than one occasion. Example is a PP Base defense where there are 3 Sirens. One of them frenzies the mob. 2nd Siren rushes into main hanger and mind controls 2 soldiers. 3rd Siren rushes in and mind controls a 3rd unit.

Before I learned by my mistakes, it happened in a base defense where I had some units lined up on the thick wall between hangar and access point. Siren rushes up on the other side of the wall and mind controlled 2 units.

I’ve had it happen during haven defenses as well. 1 Siren mind controlling 2 units.

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Definitely never happened to me, but maybe just because the right conditions didn’t arise - after all it would require the siren to be in range at the same time of two soldiers with sufficiently low WP (and the siren to have sufficiently high WP).

However, one siren controlling two soldiers is I think a better scenario than 2 sirens controlling one soldier each. Just blow her head off and they will be released at the start of Panda’s turn.

Early in the game units generally don’t have a ton of willpower. In base defenses, due to the idiotic placement of units (3 of them hanging out where the enemy spawn – come on man give me break), one has to use WP to get out of Dodge. 1 Siren with 30 WP and under frenzy can easily mind control 2 units in 1 turn.

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