V 1.10 Question about fire damage

Dante was broken, pure and simple. Not broken as in OP, but broken as in bugged. It randomly applied different number of ticks; sometimes 1, sometimes 2, sometimes 3, and sometimes around 10.

Now it works reliably: it does 80 damage to one body part, 40 damage to all body parts (so one body part can receive up to 120 damage if it has 0 armor) and applies a 40 fire status effect. It’s quite effective.

The only question is fire status and how that works. Upon further testing it looks like fire status reduces to 0 once you spend a turn outside fire (instead of by 10 as it used to).

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Thank you for your answer, we need to check everything!

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I tested the flamethrower on two Marines of the Sanhedrin. The damage is terrible, the old version would have burned them in one shot, and now even 3 shots were not enough. Flamethrower shoot in all directions will not work, you need to choose the situation for damage. In this form, it is now easier to throw an acid grenade and will be more effective.

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also inside that fire without moving? because that was my experience

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You mean Synedrion assaults? They have 18-20-18 armor, and humans have no less than 60 HP on each body part (60 head and arms, 100 body and legs). So depending on where the 80 standard damage hits you might not even disable a single body part with the attack. However, they will take damage next turn and as they try to move out of the fire, which the best use of the Dante - to create a flame wall/passage through which enemies (particularly melee Pandas) have to move through.

Another thing to consider: you will appreciate the difference when your soldiers are on the other end of a Dante too :wink:

Completely different story… The acid will eat through the armor on enemies turn, but not do any damage…

I think this has changed from the beta to the release.

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Except, according to the Patch notes, that is no longer true:

Certainly, when we were testing it in the CC, my feedback was that Crabbies were running straight through the fire without taking any damage at all - and I had at least 1 Triton that got FT’d, took 40 damage, then walked out of the fire on its own turn completely unharmed.

To take damage from Fire, creatures now have to be standing in it at the start of our turn, which is ridiculous!

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Is this confirmed? seems like the most terrible idea in the long list of terrible ideas.

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It’s not, and I don’t think that it works this way now. Patch notes are sometimes a bit off. Tbh though I’m not sure yet how it’s working now exactly. I have seen enemies take damage as they were crossing the fire, and I have verified that the fire status effect works; if an enemy has 40 fire status, it will take 40 damage on all limbs - armor, and the biggest instance of damage will be subtracted from global HP.

What I’m less clear about is how the fire status is lost; as I said in a previous post, it seems to be disappear suddenly and the only explanation I found is that the enemy had moved away from the fire.

Anyway, hopefully either this will be explained soon or we will figure it out through testing. However, I’m not finding fire useless atmo.

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Good to know at least about that. Fire status loss seems indeed weird, and we definitely need to know for sure when and how is applied. Some bugs may be at play too.

Now I can’t cook crab. this sucks!

They ought to instead just reduce the damage.

I think there was a “bug”, so when you fired in addition to instant damage, enemies were talking inmediatly tile damage as well. Which should be addressed by removing instant tile damage (receiving two times the damage) on standing on a new fire till beggining of the turn (yours or the enemy), but not touching the damage when walking from or to a fire tile or anything else even on the same turn, with the exception of maybe increasing direct damage to balance the change. Or just let it be.

Probably was not easy or obvious to do, and they decided to take a weird aproach that they did not explain properly. It may be that the tile damage is activated only at the beggining of next player turn, and one can safely walk trough fire on the turn is applied, thus explaining both accounts by the Community Councillors.

And maybe the loss of the status is a bug.

I guess more testing is needed.

Correction to myself, something strange is definitely happening.

After trying it myself, in my test I have seen the following:

When FTd myself. Running trough fire immediately made me take damage. However, if I did not move and stand in the middle of the fire I did not receive additional damage from the ground, instead my fire status was reduced by 10… while standing in the fire. I was able to stand in the fire while reducing burning status and stop burning altogether, while inside the fire.

Also yes, I can confirm that, while I have seen enemies get hurt while running in trough fire and get a burning status, I have also seen them running safely trough it. With no effect whatsoever.

I also have seen fire status get reduced twice in the same turn.

The only thing I can say, is that fire is completely broken at the moment and is totally inconsistent.

I think this should not be happening at all.

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It was when I reported it during the tests, and as far as I could tell, it hadn’t been fixed in the test update.
But from my experience, Fire atmo is utterly inconsistent - one minute it will damage a Crabbie, then the next Crabbie to run through it will take no damage at all.

Can’t tell you whether this remains true in the current Orryx release because I’ve had enough and I’ve given up on PP for now.

I’m trying Xenonauts 2 instead.

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That pretty accurately reflects my experience and what I reported.

We’re trying to get a clearer explanation from the devs as to what is going on.

Until then I shall get my TBS fix somewhere else.

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I did try the new fire system from v1.10.

In my test I have seen the following: When FTd myself. Running trough fire immediately made me take damage. However, if I did not move and stand in the middle of the fire I did not receive additional damage from the ground, instead my fire status was reduced by 10… while standing in the fire.

I was able to stand in the fire while reducing burning status and stop burning altogether, while inside the fire!

Also I can confirm that, while I have seen enemies get hurt while running in trough fire and get a burning status, I have also seen them running safely trough it. With no effect whatsoever.

I also have seen fire status get reduced twice in the same turn.

The only thing I can say, is that fire is completely broken at the moment and is totally inconsistent.

I think this should not be happening at all.

NOTE: I did use an old save file in my test.

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It might well be bugged, but to try to find some consistency in what we are seeing…

Could it be that tiles on fire have a fire status strength that reduces with time and the character inherits the fire status with the strength of the tile? That would explain this:

Also this

If the strength of the tiles on fire was less than the armor on the least armored body part, this is what should happen.

You mean like it went from 20 to 0? If the fire status = fire on tile, it would drop to 0 once the character spends a turn outside of the fire.

Again, just a working theory.

Also, even if it proves correct, a different discussion is whether this was a good change or not :slightly_smiling_face:

Detailed explanation of the new fire mechanic:

Setting an enemy on fire with flamethrower

First : Flat Damage is applied to one body part minus the set body part armor (Base flamethrower flat damage is 80)

Formula: BodyPartHP - (FlatDamage - BodyPartArmor) = ImpactDamage(Damage applied on body part from flat damage only).

Second: burning damage from the ground(40dmg) is instantly applied on each body part minus the armor.

Formula: CurrentLitTileDmg - BodyPartHP = GroundBurnDmgOnEachPart

To get the damage that will be applied to the HP from the burning ground we add all GroundBurnDmgOnEachPart from each body part and subtract it from the number of body parts.

Formula: Y = Number of body parts (GroundBurnDmgOnEachPart1 + GroundBurnDmgOnEachPart2 + …) / Y = DmgGroundBurnOnHP

Third : We add ImpactDamage + DmgGroundBurnOnHP which will give us the exact damage applied to the unit HP.

Formula: CurrentHP - (ImpactDamage + DmgGroundBurnOnHP) = TotalDmgApplied

Burning Status and when it is applied:
If you lit an enemy on fire the burning status will be applied on enemy’s next turn.

If after the damage is applied the enemy is not on burning tile the Burning Status is removed.

If the enemy is on a burning tile the Burning will be re-applied and the damage will be done on next enemy turn again.

How a burning tiles work:
Burning tile applies 40 Burning Status when the tile is freshly lit and someone steps in it.

Each burning tile reduces its damage with 10 each turn for the faction that lit the fire.

Burning ground damage is applied to the solider that steps on it based on the DmgGroundBurnOnHP formula.

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that makes sense, sometimes last turn with fire (incendiary grenade , base defence) is inflicting low or 0 damage

So, what I said :slightly_smiling_face:: characters inherit fire status from tile and strength of fire status decreases each turn. They still take damage from stepping on lit tile, but as the strength of the fire decreases, the character takes less damage (and it can be blocked altogether by armor).

Good change/bad change? Thoughts?

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Maybe I just missread. :wink:

One of the devs actually contacted me and explained me the mechanic. Instantly getting my inconditional favor and granting my hate for all the people that trash them.

This is how it goes (hope I put it correctly):

  • Fire works with an instant damage when you enter a fire tile, or lit on fire, and a status effect starting to add damage on following turns (effect of tiles delayed 1 turn).
  • Moving from a fire tile does not produce damage (removed)
  • Fire effect is inherited from the tile you stand on and this is reduced from 40 by 10 per turn (the fire on the tile itself is reduced). Fire effect is instantly removed when you walk out of fire.

My thoughts?

  • Being on fire should severely reduce the perception or accuracy. Because it makes sense and because otherwise long range enemies on fire can just stand still and shot at you with little to no penalty. Making the use of fire only suitable for short range targets and kind of pointless.

I think a difference as small as this one will completely change the way I feel towards the mechanic.

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