Spawning Alien Points


#1

While spawning points add a bit to a tactical sense, idea that “aliens teleport out of blue” is a bit anti X-Com. Its a an easy way to add to difficulty,but a bit unrealistic. Its unknown how many will spawn, when … only where.

If number of aliens in limited, why not having them all on the map scattered instead of spawning? Somewhat it missleads you to “too easy” since you see fewer aliens then realistic, sometimes too difficult (once you pass the point and aliens show behind you).

If spawning remains, let them have “spawning” turn. Having them spawn and immediately act is …

However, if they are to stay, a “spawn counter” (how many spawning or in how many turns) or similar, would be most welcome.


#2

I would really appreciate an option of destroying spawn points. In the nest, I had a situation when I cleared the first spawn. Moved forward, and then the second I was surprised by the second spawn behind my back, from already cleared area.
I fully understand this logic “there is a corridor in the nest, it’s not secured” BUT then (in “real life”) I would leave an anti-troops mine there to kill next aliens or throw a grenade to collapse and close the corridor.

On classic missions situation is more difficult.
The worst idea is to spawn enemies out of the blue (typical for FPSses, I still remember The Soldier of Fortune (yes, I am that old), when I was hiding in a shipping container, and a group of enemies spawned behind my back INSIDE the container). in XCOM world we saw that (If I am correct) in zombie swarm missions in FXCOM2.
While spawning points solve this problem (because enemies enter the map from the border) it annoys me, because I cannot react quick enough even if I am watching the spot (or “hold a sector”).
The perfect solution would be to use spawn points (if possible) not in sight of a player. This would bring some new approach:

  • you still cannot ignore spawn points
  • you are interested to monitor potential entry points
  • you are not surprised by alien to spawn 5 squares from you

#3

Certainly, there are many solutions.

One could be that they “are deactivated” when reached. Or simple placement
towards opposite end of the map (from where our team emerges) - a “better placement”
could solve it - since its limited number of spawnees.

I am overall against it, I would prefer “all enemies at once”, but scattered.


#4

And I will oppose you both.

Phoenix Point doesn’t have to be like X-Com.

It is realistic for enemy to come from outside of map. Maps doesn’t represent whole Earth or even country. :wink: It is same realistic for your troops to come from outside of map - you actually start at the edge coming from outside. And you also could receive reinforcements from outside of map in base defence missions.

Just as in real life you are not a god to know where are all enemies and when they will join the fight, or even where. Spawn markers just show possible ways from where enemy may come from, but this is not guaranteed.

Let say that there will be 30 enemies on the map and you want them all spawned on those small maps along with your squad which can have between 4 and 16 soldiers?? Place would be overcrowded unless we will see 4 (or even more) times bigger maps.

You can’t control map like in StarCraft. This is not this kind of game. In real life soldiers always need to have in mind that there could be some enemies left behind them when they approach their objective.

It is like that

Without support of the sattelites or some airborne forces I think it is not possible and would be too arcade. “Dear player you will face another 8 Crabmen, 2 Sirens, 1 Chiron and 1 Queen from right, left, top, top, right, right, left, top, left… in 1,1,1,3,5,5,5,7… turns from now. Prepare how to put all Tetris puzzles together”. Nah. We need that uncertainty to be scared of surroundings. :wink:

And how would you explain that? I have vaporized quarter of the Earth from that side of map and nothing should appear from that way?

Maybe you will be allowed to do that. Now you can leave turret to do the job.

Organic corridors probably are not so susceptible to collapsing. :wink:

Let hope that there won’t be spawning points in the containers. :wink:

They spawn in their turn and you have the whole your turn to react to them. Not enough?

I see now every soldier left behind to watch at each spawn point. Just in case… :wink: Not fun and immerce breaking

It is mostly like that. Enemies don’t spawn near your spawning point (maybe with exception of defence missions where you have power generator on the center of the map)


#5

I expect it to be more advanced strategy like 1994 XCom then “classic mass shooter”. This leans towards the latter. And PP is advertised like XCom spiritual successor.

In Xcom 1994, no. What you have in base is what you have. Map is a limited map, and there is no such thing as “outside the map”.

Xcom mechanics use fog of war for this, not spawning points. As explained, I feel spawning points as step back in realism or Xcomism.

Played a lot of large maps in XCom with 30+ enemies. Never was overcrowded :slight_smile:

Surely, this is not a Starcraft and there you had fog of war too.

Enemies could come around you, surely, but not spawn.
This is similar to “spawning bugs” mentioned in BB1/BB2 as well as Xcom Faxis way of “teleporting enemy groups in”. Way unrealistic in terms of strategy game.

Simply, “spawining points” is too easy, and non-strategic way of increasing difficulty. Nothing more, nothing less. And reminds me more of R-Type shooters then real turn based strategies.

Lets hear more opinions.

If its indeed a teleporting point, by reaching it you could blow it up and stop being used. Other would function. This would bring some balance.

I ment the spawning points NOT being in crossroads and points you have to pass where they would guarantee enemies coming from back.

I am really not sure about this. I have seen them spawning and acting in same turn. Others?


#6

I am not a huge fan of permanent ‘deactivating’ the spawn point just because you reach it. unless it’s a hatch that you can seal (so action taken, a material used)

I fully agree, but this is exactly what we did in military training. You are always watching your back BUT you don’t expect to see the enemy in the middle of the field 50 yards in front of you IF you can see for 200 yards, and this is my biggest problem.
If I see a ravine I expect to see an enemy there, so I secure it, destroy it or watch it until I am in a safe distance. But I am not using it as a partial cover (because I am there so ‘it’s safe’). But in a mission, I saw an enemy spawned in my shooting range (not necessarily a rocket launcher) while it was some kind of field or park. so in real life, I would see the enemy 50 yards away.
I know that this is a much bigger problem because if you want to have a procedurally created world you can’t have a fixed enemy spawn elements. But I am providing my feedback :wink:

TBH it’s directly the opposite. Organic material has a lower density than building materials, so you have a higher probability that it would lose its integrity.


#7

Oh come on. But this is not 1994. Game can have something outside of the map. But creating 25 square kilometers procedural map to spawn all enemies which can be possible threat in close vicinity? Fighting on such big maps would be boring as hell. If we will have bigger maps than in BB3 they could contain more enemies but probably still not enough to counter our 16 soldier squad. And spawning too many at once would be too much for that squad.


#8

Spawning points are the easiest way to ballance things with proper alien spawning in right moments. Otherwise it would require too much testing to ballance difficulty with so many mutations on each alien enemy and our versality with equipment.


#9

Yokes, I get it. this is not possible to solve, because if you would build 25sq km map, somewhere you would still create a border and then ask a question do we want a spawn or aliens scattered around.
if you chose spawn, then you return to point A, why not 25.1sq km map.

What I am saying is I support spawning element of the battle. I am simply not a huge fan of enemies spawning in front of me in an area that I control and from the points that in real life would not be the best
‘entry points’.

you said earlier:

No, because you don’t have enough soldiers to cover every spawn point and their back. and if you focus on controlling spawn points you may run out of ammo and fail to secure mission objectives. The best solution would be the aggressive fog of war, when you really have to cover your back, not only to return fire but to see anything. then you have limited chances to cover multiple spawn points, ergo game could use them to spawn.

TLDR: I support spawning. I understand why you implement it, I understand the limitation of this solution. I am just not a huge fan of unrealistic spawn points in the plain sight in well-controlled situation.


#10

I suppose you meant “they” instead of “you”. :wink:

All right all right. I get it. Mainly my reply was to rasvoja. :wink: You kane are right about that close spawns are little bit odd, but I suppose we still can manage them quite good with 1 turn cooldown. Maybe developers will look at your suggestion and disable spawn when soldiers are close by. For me it is interesting idea. But maybe they will not, because this would keep you in constant horror. :wink: We will see.


#11

You are so active that we can suspect that maybe you are a developer in disguise. :wink:


#12

Off-topic:
I for sure hope not, maybe a “hidden” community manager, but a dev “arguing” so much instead of working sounds like a bad idea (during work time, which should be over there) :stuck_out_tongue:


#13

I see 1994 (or Laser Squad) more advanced in this matter. I dont see “arcade” game element in startegy game as advancement.

Might be easiest, but neither balances game, NOR brings them in right moment.

By so far experience in forum, only Yokes and Unstable Voltage have insight in team work
and represent them. Jullian apperas just to assure something will be resolved :slight_smile:


#14

Just a player loving the idea of this game with the knack for looking at details and numbers. And on the vacations, so I have a lot of time. :wink: Working with the dev team would be great, but I suppose there is no job for me. :wink:


#15

Unfortunately not. But I try to note some things which appear on interviews or in the comments in different places. Kings_Rook or Retcon Raider know more than me. And UV for sure. :wink: BTW. If I knew more then probably I would need to sign some disclosure of confidentiality and remain silent in many matters. :grinning:


#16

I wanted to implement a system where a spawn point would start flashing angrily when an enemy is about to arrive there - giving you some early warning. In the end, we just made spawning enemies have 15% of their action points - enough to move a bit, but not threatening. If an enemy spawns near a soldier, you can either run away or try and kill it.
The reason we have spawning at all is to keep the pace of the game going reasonably while still enabling more epic battles. The current system is not quite right though, since alien forces are divided proportionately between initial deployment and reinforcements (based on the mission type), but it would actually be better to deploy all enemies initially if there are not too many of them.
In the alien bases it is a different case. You have infiltrated a large maze of tunnels, and as you reach the objective the aliens in the other parts of the base come rushing to defend the spawner/queen, and you need to focus on the objective, not get distracted by crabmen.


#17

Thanks for clarification. Hope it will improve.
Instead of 15% spawned aliens TU it would really be better to have e.g. lights change to indicate when spawning will occur and full alien arriving.

That sounds really good if can be done without spawning points at all.


#18

REDACTED

Also, these town maps, they could just be popping up out of sewers all over the place. At least they’re a little separated for the moment!

EDIT: Apparently I was mistaken, please disregard and avoid spreading.


#19

I’m not aware of us ever saying anything to that effect. Infact, some of the maps in BB3 are the biggest we’ve ever made.


#20

Really? That is odd. I could’ve swore I read something about the maps being small in order to condense enemies closer in to the start.