Aliens Spawning

After having a break from the BB, I have started it back up again.

One thing that is still a pet peeve, is the aliens spawning in to a map mid fight. I get that they probably can’t have all the aliens already camping the players spawn point. There will be rage by those who get smashed too fast. BUT… I think there are better ways of handling them. Enemies, spawning in after a battle has already started in a game, always feels like AI cheating. So you done pretty well with the starting line up??? Well We will just spawn some aliens all around you!

Anyone else dislike the spawn in of the aliens? Or am I just ranting about nothing? Also what are some ideas that would allow more aliens in a map without swamping the player?

Bigger maps, or longer maps?
The aliens have their starting line up spread through out the map as they currently do. However they also have the ‘B team’ Already spawned in at the farthest end of the map from the players spawn. When we start firing the ‘B Team’ makes its way across the map to the fight. This pushes us to finish the ‘A team’ faster so we are not fighting 2 teams at once. Also allows the ‘A team’ to pull back if we do too well.

Hidden alien team.
All aliens spawn in but one group stays hidden until we are close enough to be ambushed. When we get close enough they pour out to attack at close range. In the city maps this tactic would be difficult to deal with and make us rethink strategy. At the moment I just clear out a corner and very slowly work my way across a map. The slower you go the easier it is. If you keep the aliens and unexplored buildings one move away they never even get close to you. If an entire squad of aliens all held out in the same place then charged together once spotted it would be very difficult to counter.

Just a larger fighting group at the start.
Rather than spawning in, all the aliens just start on the map. I actually like this idea but I can see it causing forum rage, when the tactical missions are difficult from the second we spawn in.

In a different thread that dealt with this, it was pointed out that the devs made it so it is intentially not convenient for the player.

Elsewhere, I think it was mentioned the spawn ins represent enemy forces in the area that respond to the disturbance of combat, allowing them to limit the resources your computer needs for maps/units.

Maps are sized the way the are so that you don’t have to spend ages searching for an engagement, and to mitigate the old “lone survivor” problem of a panicked alien.

Essentially, part of this game is knowing that gunfire will draw more enemies and to avoid leaving you flanks/back open because the edge of the map is not a WALL, it theoretically connects to the rest of the game world, and to that Queen’s pissed off children.

Edit: also just to point out, spawns are fairly regular in frequency, and are finite (at the moment, half the enemies are on map, other half spawn in). To my mind, that doesn’t come across as unfair. It’s just another known mechanic to handle as part of playing.

I have been away from it for a while so I must’ve missed that thread. Thanks for summing it up.

I get that a gun fight would pull all the local aliens to the battle. It just means we cannot cleanly clear a map. There could be aliens spawning anywhere around us and this seems to create that lost ‘lone survivor’ more than rule it out. If you have cleared out a corner of the map, at the start of the mission, then work your way across to the other side, you will have to go back and clear out the alien that spawned back at your original point. If that alien spawned and went into panic, you have to go back and find it. It just seems like a cheap way of supplying targets to the map.

I would be good to seal off spawns some how. If you put a solider on the alien spawn symbol, it sures up that flank. The spawn mark changes to a PP symbol (from alien) and the aliens can no longer spawn there.

Either way it might get better with a bit of balance. Will have to wait and see what they do with it.

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I would like being able to halt enemy spawns somehow. You can do this in a lot of strategy games (Fire Emblem, for instance), and while some might say it’s unrealistic, I would say it also adds a layer of strategic choice to the tactical battles–you’ll have to choose between not only controlling high ground and mission objective points, but also spawning points, adding more complexity but in a comprehensible way.

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How did they stop the spawns in Fire Emblem? (Sorry, never played that one). Was it just a option setting, or did you have to earn it in game somehow?

Dont get me wrong, I want the extra aliens in the missions, to add difficulty (well at the moment that is… might be different after balancing :rofl:). I just think there must be a better way to bring them into the map, than them randomly spawning all around you.

In the old Fire Emblem games (on the SNES and GBA, if I recall correctly) enemies spawned from little forts that took up one panel of the battlefield. If you put one of your units over a panel, that would stop the enemy from spawning :smiley:

I’m really more against bigger maps than spawning points. I really prefer fighting random monster on my back than searching him on a big map. Already those small maps take like 30 minutes to finish. Or even more if there are more enemies or they are more dangerous. I don’t want to spend whole days just to play one week of in-game time doing a dozen number of missions.

Idea of Team B or Hidden Team sounds like that hated idea of pods from new XCOMs.

More forces on the map seems the most preferred way if you hate spawn points so much. But again this will change map in giant battlefield where you dig on your starting position and fight everything around you. So really static combat without too many options.

Idea of blocking spawns may be something interesting but only when there is reasonable explanation to do that like collapsing cave corridor, or collapsing whole building to the street or cliff to the narrow passage. Leaving soldier there just to block spawn is not really fun way of dealing with spawns.

I still prefer spawning points over those ideas. Especially combined with different alien abilities and mutations. And our turrets and soldier abilities can counter those spawns. There could be some satelite sweep technology to discover which will show number of turns on each spawn point imdicating when the enemy will appear there.

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I totally get the spawn blocking idea, but I feel like it’s maybe overkill with the limited reinforcement system. Since they run out of spawns after a little while, the reasons to block are limited vs. waiting them out. There’s certainly a tactical choice in blocking one over another, just not convinced that is worth the time programming a new mechanic in to deal with it. Of course, for all I know, that’s already in the cards. This is all still alpha, so who knows.

That is a very cool idea. Especially in the alien nest missions, when they spawn several units behind you constantly. Which is why my rant started. Leaving half the squad behind, to deal with the aliens spamming out of a side cave spawn, while the other half moved on to take the queen. If we could set a charge and drop the caves on the side as we went would stop that crap from happening.

While I initially did that, I started to… not. Basically, rush forward aggressively. I’d drop turrets at choke points sometimes, but if you’re advancing fast enough, the newly spawned bad guys can’t come dar forward enough to make much of a difference.

Granted, I had the advantage of knowing the layout given there’s only a small number of configurations. One of the shorter maps can be finished in 2 turns.

I did the opposite, I bunkered down 3-4 guys at spawn, sent 1-2 ahead very slightly to watch that side and just slaughtered them until they ran out, then moved on.

I think that is why this game is shaping up to be great. Everyone can take on missions their own way.

I usually leave two soldiers with firecats to cover busy spawn caves, then move forwards with the rest of the squad. The firecats clear spawn caves very effectively. Just annoying to leave them behind.

I do the same. I don’t bother too much with new spawns at alien bases. :wink: But I hope that developers will change objectives. Not just “kill spawner or queen” but also second objective “get out of alien base”. :wink:

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Good idea, I like that one.

It would force a change of tactics if we had to fight our way back out. Seems like a job half done killing the Queen while other things are living in the base still.

I’m with you on the spawn points … it feels weird and removes a sense of immersion for me. Very differen than XCOM, the missions just feel more real. Even the XCOM 2 reinforcements mechanic is much better where enemies drop in, real reinforcements, instead of spawn points on the side of the map that I as a player am aware of from the start. So I’d see some work invested into this.

Lots of other things I take issue with right now, but I assume these will be addressed during the development. If they’re still in during beta I’ll bring them up ;9

So you either want to:

  • have no spawn point and have bigger boring maps, or
  • have no spawn points and have less enemies on maps, or
  • have some mechanic which probably will be more weird than those spawn points, or
  • have something from XCOM2 which, in my opinion, is also not so rational as those spawn points

Guys you really can’t accept that you have some target area where you have your objective (map represents that) and there can be enemies in vicinity which can come to your target area and appear in those spawn point locations?

Expanding map more than those targeted area, “to include all possible enemies which could be there” would lead to some crazy big maps. Limiting enemies without powering them up (like making crabmen small bosses to fight) would decrease challange.

Reinforcements make sense to me. But not reinforcements

  • on 5 specific tiles on the map
  • for which there is no motivated reasoning (there are no doors or tunnels or other meaningful access points)
  • which we as players somehow know about because we can somehow anticipate the future not only in terms of that enemies will reinforce, but also exactly on which tiles.

So, no, doesn’t work for me, and I don’t think it’s so hard to see why.

Neither is necessary. Again, other games do well without either of these 2 options. You either put more enemies on the map (like XCOM) so you don’t need spawn points to begin with, and make the map slightly larger (at the moment you can traverse with a jetpack in 3 moves), or you implement a different spawn mechanic. These are weird creepy crawler aliens … I wouldn’t mind at all if they spawn ON the map, from hives or tunnels, buried under the Earth. Something cool and immersive.

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In previous iteration of BB there was complaining that aliens spawn all around the map (in one of specific layouts) - players wanted some prediction or at least specific places for enemies to appear, not 2 tiles behind your soldiers, so here in BB3 we have those spawning points.

But I suppose that spawn points will be randomized on maps in final release and they represent some general direction from where enemies come. Open field or street is meaningful access point? :slight_smile:

Spec Ops while preparing for a mission usually know where they can find possible points of extraction and possible directions from where enemy reinforcements may come. :wink:

  • For me XCOM was too overcrowded with enemies (or actually it was more a problem with pods).
  • Maps probably will be sometimes larger. Currently most maps generate on layouts with 48x48 tiles. But If I’m not mistaken there will be maps punching space to even 64x64 tiles or even 80x80

It may be relevant to remember that there is currently no max vision distance, which is part of the final game. We won’t always be able to just see everything on the map.

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I would say there is one vision :slight_smile: spotting enemies is set to 35 tiles. But we can see whole map.