Seriously... is this game not still in beta?

I mean really, to release a game in a state where key mechanics just aren’t functioning is not a good way to impress your fans.

(And to anyone who thinks I’m exaggerating, Beta is normally described as when all major features are in the game, just needs fixes)

Cover is a key element to this game… but it doesn’t work…
Try and use cover and your soldier either stands completely behind it and can’t see round it at all, so if you want to actually shoot the enemy then you have to stand in the open 75% of the time, but your soldiers often make zero attempt to use the cover they are right next to!

Overwatch often triggers when a soldier can see an alien’s elbow or the tip of it’s head instead of waiting for a half decent shot.

Weapon and alien balance seems non-existent.

Many maps but particularly enemy hives are just black till you rotate the screen. Mist just makes everything black, even when you can ‘see’ the enemy.

Tutorial is extremely poor, misses out many key things you need to know and teaches bad habits.

Sight lines just don’t work. Far too often I have a sight line, move into position and wait no, can’t see shit… These also need a guide to how much of the enemy you can see. Is this a ‘I can see an elbow’ sight line or one where I can see the whole guy from here.

I can see a really good game here… but its hiding under all these core mechanics not been finished and actually working properly yet.


You forgot when it says you can see the enemy from there, but you really cannot, due to cover. That is terrible with roofs.

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Yeah, if the cover and sight line bugs were at least fixed it would be at least playable.

At the moment you don’t really play the game, you just exploit the unbalanced bits like the APCs and Biochemist.

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Some people seem to adore that aspect, it seems. There’s a whole cult dedicated to the Return Fire bug being a feature, even if it’s one that renders cover and several character classes pointless and requires you to make use of Line of Sight bugs.

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Cover seems to work, for the most part, in my experience. There are some things that are pretty wonky though.

Like some walls look like high cover, visually, but they act as low cover or no cover. So if you hide behind it, you won’t step out to shoot.

And some times you can see like a tentacle poking out so the game tells you that you have a shot, but you don’t really. I mean, I guess if you had killer accuracy you could shoot his **** off, but it is jarring to see no enemy when you go to fire.

Also, the tutorial seemed fine to me, but man oh man does that Phoenixpedia need work. There are so many little, important details that were left out of it.

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Yes, that part of what I’m meaning.

There are some benches and trees and bits of machines that also block fire but don’t get marked as cover so your guys make no effort to either hide behind them or to fire round them.

And some bits, even when marked as cover, your guys still stay quite a distance from the cover so its actually far to easy to land a shot on them.

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line of sight cover sight lines and overwatch actually all work. 100%.

if you don’t want to shoot an elbow shrink your overwatch cone down with ctrl mouse wheel.
if you want cover to work don’t put a heavy in low cover and if you plan to use high cover to it’s full advantage know that you’ll be missing out on free aim mode. which for all i know could be intentional, but peek around high cover works 100% if you use a regular shot.

of course none of this stuff is explained anywhere in the game.

You know I played Xcom-1 and Phoenix point on release. And phoenix point is in perfect condition in comparison to the state of Xcom-1 at launch.

So there’s a few bugs. It’s not like games are released bug-free anymore. They will get fixed.

:face_with_hand_over_mouth: A few bugs? Half of my playtime is F12 stuff. FiraXCOM1 got away with murder. It doesn’t mean it should be an accepted standard.

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I played X-Com 1 on release and well and sure it was buggy, but I wouldn’t say it was as buggy as this game currently is. Possible I just got lucky and didn’t see the bugs when I was playing Xcom but still, you can’t miss the bugs in PP :slight_smile:

It’s a long time ago but as I recall the most annoying where.
Line of sight bugged to hell and back.
You as well as the Aliens could shoot through walls without disturbing a brick.
99% hit meant you would surly miss. Below 30% near guaranteed a crit.
You were lucky if you could play for a hour without the AI locking up.
The aircraft would sometimes become invisible.
Aliens would crit you from the other side of the map without you being detected.
You would not detect a alien that was within spitting distance and nothing between you.

And that’s just of the top of my head. There was many, many more. Another annoyance was that they were so slow with the patches. It was a bloody mess.

I have to ask. Where are the bugs in PP. I can’t say I’ve come across one.

There are sure as hell bugs in LoS and Overwatch. I don’t know why you are saying there aren’t. If the Developers intended the system to be broken, so you can’t use Overwatch from cover, then I want a refund.

This is how LoS Free Aim and Cover should be handled, so far as I’m concerned:

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I think it’s because I don’t use cover as much as I use to with Xcom-2 I find overwatch with other members of my squad providing cover is usually enough. If there is cover at the end of where I want to go I use it, but I don’t seek it out. The benefits of cover in PP are marginal at best. Also my advance on many occasions is running away.
So things might effect some but not others so much. It depends on how you play, but not once have I questioned the cover I use, apart from it blocking my shot which is a bug I think.

I have tried to do as the Aliens shoot through walls and windows, The Aliens always hit what’s behind the wall window, I just hit the wall or window never damage anything behind. Even grenades can sometimes not even break a window.

Also many things that should provide cover don’t. Quite large objects like benches.
Also often when going into overwatch when in high cover, your soldier decides he is going to overwatch the wall instead of looking round it.

Also many times when you have a sight line when you hover over a square, but when you move the character there you don’t.
Also can be achieved sometimes by switching weapon, suddenly the game thinks you have no line of sight. Seen this on a sniper a few times. (and no it wasn’t out of pistol range)

I try to love this game because this stuff of tactic games is mine !
But to the love of the devs - really- those lair missions are wrecked in means of balance !
2 artillery dudes, 2 charm dudes and alot of other alien stuff. CMon guys, are you real?
The artillery dudes shoot 2 times and your team is gone - over the whole map !

I dropped the game by now since these missions are not winnable !

Noticed a few points about claiming the line of sight system “Doesn’t work” and I think there may be some factors not being taken into consideration when reaching that conclusion when applied to Phoenix Point.

In a game like Firaxis’s ‘XCOM’ series, I would 100% agree that this would be a problem as in such games the game is hard limiting attacks into a very simplistic:

"Object A attacks ONLY Object B that was hard targeted "

So the outcome of your attack is always either “Hit Object B and apply damage” or “Do nothing”.

Phoenix Point however doesn’t do attack calculations this way. Instead each “Attack” consists of multiple smaller “Attacks” in the form of each projectile, and the game does a much purer application of damage to whatever each individual projectile collides with, so even if the projectile misses what the player had hoped to hit as the projectile continues if it then hits something else, it will apply damage to it… and this fundamentally changes everything as the attack logic is now:

Projectile X attacks Object ‘Y’ <Where ‘Y’ is whatever that particular projectile collided with>

So in a single attack action, your unit can in effect be inflicting attack actions on a half dozen different objects, be they cover, enemy, friendlies or scenery objects… heck if you attack a enemy with low enough health with a weapon that fires multiple projectiles your attacks can kill them after the first few projectile hits, and then proceed to damage enemy units stood directly behind them.

How this changes things like what is effective for line of sight and how it’s used for overwatch and/or return fire purposes is that in the process of a single attack, your first initial projectiles fired can actually travel toward the enemy, collide with potentially obstructing objects between you and the enemy and remove them whilst your attack is still in progress, giving the projectiles from that same attack following behind them nothing else to hit except the enemy.

This is why some weapons are MUCH more useful in certain situations than they initially first appear if you were only to use ‘XCOM thinking’. A low damage per projectile automatic rifle that fires 8 bullets per attack is essentially giving you 8 individual attacks per action, with each attack having the potential to remove obstructions which then lets the other attacks in that same action continue on hit whatever is further on, remove that and allow the remaining projectile attacks to continue on further.

The implementation of line of sight used in Phoenix Point is designed around how this actual game works, just because before you start your attack you can only see a tentacle protruding from somethings head, doesn’t mean that the only thing that can be hit for the duration of the entire attack action is that tentacle… the game attempts to make sure that units are aware of any part of a enemy so that they can take action and do damage (or expose) that target following the behaviours of this game.

If the game didn’t have these systems behave the way they do now, I’d sure be annoyed at the developers for not having something that worked for the nuances of their own game by the 3rd time by heavy weapons units refused to take a easy kill on a enemy by blasting right through the enemies cover and then hitting them and killing them with ease, just because all they had to go on to know the enemies exact location was a elbow.