Retreat! - and other thoughts

Looking back at the pre release fiction, there is a common theme… FEAR.

Yet despite that, I have never retreated from a mission because it was unwinnable or too costly. Most times you can just cheese or reload, until you brute force the win.

What if every battle wasn’t winnable? You had to hold the evac point whilst a scout went off to the objective, then escape? What if after clearing the area, a random timer started before the next wave, so that you had to loot and retreat? Dragging enemy bodies to the evac zone for dissection?

What if there was the opportunity for unique loot?

And what if enemies that escape are linked to the progression of the their offence/defence?

From a gameplay perspective, it needs to feel as if we are developing from new recruits to grizzled veterans, in the same way our technology should also develop.

Not once did I feel the need to “upgrade” my armour to survive - getting hit pretty much wipes you out so the only tactic is to not get hit. This also makes building a medic pretty useless.

By the end of the game I’d like to feel as if I’ve turned the tide, rather than just managed to survive long enough to access the end game scenario. By the end game, I don’t want to go into a mission being afraid of the enemies, but rather that I have the skills/tech to deal with the threat. - I want to feel badass.

I also feel research should become a tradable commodity - but trading with factions impacts diplomacy. Research points need to mean something!

There needs to be a way to reverse the inter-faction hatred. I know the Pandora Virus is having a mental impact on people, but I’m pretty sure if a bunch of NJ recruits saved a Syn haven, relationships would change. What if, using PP as a catalyst you could unite the factions to a point where they share research with each other?

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Each soldier needs to be a medic. You can survive one hit, usually two. You have to be mindful of not getting one soldier ganged up on or they will die. But you need to be able to have each soldier heal themselves during the missions. Sometimes, your soldier with +50% heal can’t get there or will also be exposed to enemy fire if they do. This I find is a big change from XCom. Plus you get experience points from being hit and from healing. Early on I actually put soldiers in positions where they will get hit so that they can heal.
I wouldn’t mind a bit of an armour upgrade being possible as opposed to just getting the different types. Nothing major, like XCom, but little upgrades being researchable, so that my soldiers can gain a point or two of head armour if I think the aliens are always aiming for my heads.

[Edit] You also need now to be mindful of return fire since it is so deadly. Sometimes I slip back into XCom style fighting, (move up and blast) only to slap my forehead for forgetting I ain’t gonna kill it with one shot and more likely I die because I won’t be able to heal the damage.

You mean with relaoding a lot isn’t it? If not I want the let’s play. And it requires an urgent fix, boredom game if soldiers are never hit.

Are you this guy beating all RPG with one nude mage?

I don’t reload and I’m not naked in battle and I don’t take massive amounts of hits. Usually one or two soldiers are up closer and they tend to draw the fire. But I also stay as far back as possible, usually out of crab effective range, using the much maligned assault rifle (yes, the basic PP version, throughout the entire game…best weapon in the game…well…Synedrion laser version is my favourite for the range). So one or two, with armour and health cranked up, usually take the most damage. The others not so much. I sometimes wish they did, to get the experience from taking damage and healing!

Ok ok, snipers teams mainly? Never tried, SR are core of fun but core of many problems and abuses.

Fix SR first to stop abuse before want change all the game.

No, NOT sniper teams.

My favourite team is: heavy/sniper, sniper/heavy, + 4 assaults (one each combined w priest, infiltrator, berserker, and tech). That team is able to deal with any situation. When I say stay back, I mean just out of crab effective range (somewhere around 15 maybe?). That way they have to move a bit and then shoot and only get one round off at you.

You really need to explain how you make this work. Seems to me that you would need to go through an insane amount of ammo.

Gee and soldiers are never hit, a let’s play would enhance video game community. That said Priest was allowing many abuse, if it’s a lot that then with last nerf it should not work anymore.

Restarting and cheesing IS ‘retreating from a mission because it was unwinnable’. If you have to Restart or resort to cheese, you are tacitly admitting that you can’t win any other way.

I retreat on a fairly regular basis (I’d say 1 in 5 missions involves a strategic withdrawal, especially with my B Team); but then I only ever hit Restart if I feel I’ve been cheated in some way by an unknown game mechanic. So in my experience, every battle isn’t winnable, and part of the challenge of this game is knowing when to admit defeat and fall back.

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Okay. I will work something up (have to head to work now). I was thinking of doing a Hints thing for the assault rifles, so tonight or weekend I’ll see what I can make up. They are the best, really. If I looked at damage output, they would hands down do the most in any one turn. But I’ll see what I can make up. I hate all the negative dumping on them in all the forum places.

Maybe we can get JG or other devs to kick in to the discussion to offer how they use them!

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Yes bit I don’t notice any value it’s just a lot of resources lost for nothing. 1 for 5 looks a lot too frequent, you just choose your way to play, perhaps close to ironman, but it’s your choice, it’s not a game well done for ironman, even with a very open retreat option. Different opinion than your.

I said not all my soldiers get hit. The front ones take a beating. And the changes to the skills, priest yes, but esp. dash, mean tactics will have to adapt. I started a new campaign last night but have only had enough missions to get the two assaults dash. Haven’t tried to use it yet. Don’t be so critical, am just offering ideas for people to try, not saying I’m some god at the game.

Maybe the ‘don’t do scavenging missions’ also reflects my thinking. I DO them all, right through to the end of the game. Not because they are necessarily efficient…but I bought this game to enjoy the tactical battles. So the more the better! :slight_smile:

Sorry but it’s totally different talk you argued soldier never hit not needing any medic, and nor use much SR, this is hugely different now, I was critical and skeptical on your previous comment, this one is fine.

And yeah AR tricks, good idea too many players bash them. I also use them fairly often, but I don’t have that much trick for them. :slight_smile:

You don’t build a medic like in XCom because every soldier in essence needs to be one. That’s what I meant. Every soldier needs to carry health paks. The best thing in the game is that one you research that does double healing and only weighs 1 point! But everybody needs them. How many times have I had someone, usually heavies, or grenade throwing assaults, and I said, ah, he won’t need a med kit. Of course… :slight_smile:

Given the amount of complaints about the extortionate cost of recruits, I’d say falling back from a difficult position and not losing half my squad is ultimately saving me resources in the long run.

You’re quite right, I do play an HonestMan version of IronMan, because I find it much more interesting to play that way. The challenge is how to keep your tiny little unit running in an incredibly hostile environment without resorting to what are effectively ‘cheats’.

The point I was actually making is that boasting you can win every scenario by Restarting or cheesing it until you do doesn’t make these scenarios automatically ‘winnable’. It just means you’re the Aliens in The Day After Tomorrow.

But I don’t want to get into another long, drawn-out difference of opinion with you Zzzz, so let’s leave it there, eh? :wink:

Sigh, sorry, I was answering OP, and at some points thought it was you.

Ooops, ok I beat myself and it hurts. :slight_smile:

Sure, my honestman play doesn’t involve that much constraint self inflicted, and reload is still rare, but retreat is more like 5 times, 4 for lairs. I would retreat too often anyway. Can’t count the number of combats I thought it would be disastrous and ended fairly well overall.

Edge of tomorrow :wink: for those who want to look at that film.

Oops, my bad :face_with_hand_over_mouth: