It’s not like AR, it does not set cost to 1. It reduces cost by 1 (if possible). Heavier weapons would still cost 2AP.
Right! Complete misread on my part.
But the operation logic would still work. It would reduce to 1 to a minimum of 1, and then the other abilities would reduce it to 0 since they do not have a minimum.
I see. It makes sense to have an AP cost of 1 (otherwise it’s too big of a penalty if you fail to score a kill after casting), but I think you could also do without it (if the devs see it as unnecessary complex/hard to grasp).
Regarding Quick Aim and Boom Blast, it would allow some net generation of APs, unfortunately. But the Assault/Sniper PDW specialist really needs to generate 2APs per kill… 1 AP is not enough to keep the chain going. Also, Gorgon Eye-A is the culprit there and it could do with a nerf.
So does this look OK to you:
Rapid Clearance (5WP 1AP): Attacks with proficient weapons cost 1 AP less (to a minimum of 1 AP) until the end of the turn. Recover 1 AP for each enemy killed.
?
(I tried to use words from other skill descriptions already in the game)
It certainly does. I never understood why a PDW should be the best Weapon in the game. The jump from 20 damage with the VDM to 40 damage makes no sense whatsoever. It wasn’t even touched in the patch while nerfing a bunch of other Weapons meaning its relative power increased even further.
1 Like
So no enemies spawned or attempted to engage your squad in 5 turns? That’s supposed to be the point. If it’s too easy to deal with those, that’s another issue.
Extra enemies wouldn’t do much to make me enjoy the mission more either. It’s not particularly easy either, given I had a soldier with two limbs short in that mission. The two particular encounters, one at each spawner, were pretty good! The small corridors make for good fights.
The way from one encounter to the next, though? Bleh.
Quick Aim & RC could work like Quick Aim & Rage Burst, so that Quick Aim simply doesn’t have any effect when RC is active, RC should always calculate with the base AP of the used weapon.
For QA&RB it seems to be accepted, almost everyone knows that it simply doesn’t work together and I don’t see much complaints about it. So why not the same solution for QA&RC?
And then the same for Boom Blast.
You know, I was thinking the same thing, but the difference is that RB has a specific attack button. It wouldn’t make a lot of sense to have special attack button for attacking while on RC. It would be very confusing.
That’s a valid concern. We could approach this skill from another side.
Rapid Clearance: After killing enemy, your next action costs no AP
So instead of getting refunds, you’d get free action to continue the chain. Upon killing last enemy, instead of having 2AP, you’d have dash free of AP charge, to move your character
Yes, that is the main difference between RC and RB and maybe somewhat confusing for some people. But I think it could work a similar way. There is no need for an special attack button when you have activated RC, just QA has no effect and it should be not selectable. If you select QA before RC, than its effect is cancelled.
Edit …
I take your description and add something:
Rapid Clearance (5WP 1AP): Attacks with proficient weapons cost 1 AP less (to a minimum of 1 AP and any other AP reduction like Quick Aim or Boom Blast has no effect) until the end of the turn. Recover 1 AP for each enemy killed.
I’m afraid it creates far more problems than it solves:
-
Just as AR, it encourages using a weapon that would normally cost 3APs to maximize the increase of damage per AP.
-
It is less flexible than current RC, so it can cut on certain “legitimate” uses of the skill that involve a pause in the kill chain (for example, minute changes in positioning to improve LOS)
TBH, I think that to avoid complicating the skill the solution is to nerf Gorgon Eye-A a little bit, because that’s the only conceivable way in which Quick Aim could be abused in this context to generate net APs.
Boom Blast, on the other hand, would allow for 1 single 0 AP attack with mounted weapon, so that’s not a real source of net AP generation.
It’s not great though that it would allow for attacks with GL at the cost of 1AP, and come to think of it, that’s probably the biggest issue that can arise. I can already picture clips on YouTube of someone casting Boom Blast and then RC and spamming half the map with nades.
What if we put it this way:
Rapid Clearance (5WP 1AP): Attacks with direct fire proficient weapons cost 1 AP less (to a minimum of 1 AP) until the end of the turn. Recover 1 AP for each enemy killed.
It excludes melee and explosives attacks from the AP bonus, but they would still give back 1AP for each kill, and it makes sense given that this is the Assault class.
What do you guys think?
2 Likes
It looks good to me. Basically it still lets you chain kills with a rifle, maybe generate a bit of AP with a pistol (I think you totally deserve that AP if you’re expending that will AND running an assault/sniper that actually gets in range for pistol fire), and lets you double-tap with sniper/heavy if you don’t move.
That, however, makes me sad that there isn’t a melee equivalent for the skill, then. Not like melee’s usable like that anyway.
Yep, looks good. 
Additionally, QA costs WP for every use, so it is already somewhat limited and killing even the weakest enemies with one Gorgon Eye-A burst is also not true, at least after the midgame. Compared to Iconoclast it still has not the most damage/AP even without any nerf (175 vs 160).
Edit:
To be honest, melee is not the domain of an assault and with this change it is somewhat on par with sniper rifles or miniguns, also not the best solution for this ‘new’ RC. Iconoclast will be the best way to go and I think it is ok.
I’d say it allows for more synergies 
. Is “2AP” a bible or just a number, because when designing skill dev saw the image of “guy with a shotgun(2AP) gets into a room full of baddies”?
Secondly it does not interfere with a movement during the chain (if you have AP to move and then to shot, you’ll also have AP to move and then to use free action). It gives you less movement when you finish the chain (AP returned from last kill vs free action).
Anyway, what we like or think is good may not be into dev’s liking, so I’d say presenting them with multiple options gives greater chance of finally solving that issue.
-
“Rapid Clearance (5WP): Gain 2 AP when killing an enemy. Lasts for one turn.”
_Current version, abusable in multiple ways -
“Rapid Clearance (5WP): When killing enemy recover AP spent on the attack (up to 2AP). Lasts for one turn.”
_Not abusable and is not hard to understand (seriously let’s not treat people as idiots, typical card game, like MtG or Heartstone with much bigger casual playerbase has much more complicated card mechanics and is fine). -
Rapid Clearance (5WP 1AP): Attacks with direct fire proficient weapons cost 1 AP less (to a minimum of 1 AP) until the end of the turn. Recover 1 AP for each enemy killed.
_Can be slightly abused by Sniper/Assault with QuickShot reduction stacking on 1AP weapons (realisticaly only with Gorgon PDW), though it’s unsustainable due to WP cost. -
Rapid Clearance (5WP): After killing enemy, your next attack cost no AP (alternative version: up to 2AP less).
_Not abusable, but hinders movement after chain is finished (since player’s left with a free action rather than AP). Also “no AP cost” version opens wider synergies with Heavy/Sniper class weapons (currently only available via QuickShot ability) while “up to minus 2AP cost” completely shuts down synergies with Heavy/Sniper class weapons (since QuickShot ability AP reduction does not stack).
This I think might work, in the following version:
Rapid Clearance (5WP): After killing an enemy, your next attack costs 2 APs less.
What recommends this option is that you don’t get APs to move somewhere else and keep the chain going across the map. But we have to think about all the stuff that could be used to break it.
I think areas of concern are:
- Boom Blast (again)
- Bloodlust
- Frenzy
- Onslaught
(I don’t see an issue with Quick Aim, as even if it is used to reduce cost of 3AP weapons to 2AP to get a synergy going, SRs are not 1 shot-kill weapons.)
- For Boom Blast, either something has to be done about BB itself, or, if there is no willingness to change it right now, to exclude it from RC like this:
Rapid Clearance (5WP): After killing an enemy, your next attack with a direct fire weapon costs 2 APs less.
It’s nice because it doesn’t kill the synergy with other weapon types completely - e.g. if you score a kill with a melee weapon, you are still getting 2APs less for the next attack with a DFW, but it doesn’t allow to spam nades all over 2/3rds of the map.
-
Bloodlust: I hate this skill, because it’s only conceivable utility is as a meta-ingredient to break the game. However, short of doing something to Bloodlust itself, it can’t be helped. Any ideas?
-
Frenzy: same as above. There are two options I like: make it give a flat +5 to Speed, or make it so that humans with this status effect become disoriented and can’t use any skills that require WPs (suggested by Belial on Discord).
-
Onslaught: I haven’t tried it yet. If it’s a status effect, so it can’t be cast multiple times on the same soldier (which I don’t know), might be OK.
Why is every answer to balance-issues to nerf nerf nerf?
Rapid clearance can be powerful, true, but when you have 4 enemies spawn on top of you and 5 that can shoot you without you even being able to see them from turn 1 you have to have powerful skills to deal with the situation.
If you min/max everything you some parts will get a bit too easy, well, is the answer really to ruin it for everyone that doesn’t go for the most optimal builds at all times? Is the best answer to “rage burst is strong if you combine it with recknlessness, heavy weapons on a sniper build and… … …” to nerf rage burst into oblivion?
That’s a difficulty, not a balance issue. If you feel like the challenge you are facing is above your expectations for the difficulty you are playing on, you should definitely start a topic on that. I can assure that the devs will be very interested in that kind of feedback.
However, the answer to high difficulty can’t be obscure skill combinations that result in a single soldier clearing the whole map in a single turn on his own.
First and foremost, it’s not fair to the new players (particularly casual players who are not familiar with the genre), who don’t know about these skill combinations.
It’s also not fair to the conventional players who are looking for a reasonable tactical challenge and expect the devs to balance the game, not to have to balance it themselves by applying self restrictions when necessary.
Anyway, if you are interested there are several topics dedicated exclusively to this issue. The most recent, if I’m not not mistaken, is this one: Think combos are OP, don't use them - #4 by VOLAND
3 Likes
The caster can only cast it once but the one who receives the 2 AP can get another onslaught from a different Assault or even more.
I second Volands comment.
To add to it, usually you have 6-people squad to deal with the threats. Therefore there’s no need for any of them to have skills that can casually clean half of the map.
Secondly the only time I’ve personally been in a situation where I’ve faced 6-10 enemies at the very start of the combat was the ambush mission. Instead of trying to kill everyone, I’ve always just pushed into one, most favorable direction, so that all I needed was to kill maybe 3-4 and distance myself from the rest.
It’s not about difficulty, nor about balance, it’s about poor design.
The game throws you into bad situations you have to be able to handle them.
The proper answer isn’t “nerf nerf nerf”; the proper answer is “change change add”
- Change the skill so that it’s still really useful but limit it so that it’s not a terminator skill
- Change the game so that the situations where the original skill was required no longer occurs (in other words, no end game rooms with 2 skylls, 4 chirons and a bunch of arthrons; no enemies spawning on top of you etc)
- Add something new to compensate for the power lost when changing the skill