Phoenix Point v. Cthulhu 1.6 - 30th of July

I agree that the main problem is how Rapid Clearance and Adrenaline Rush interact, the best solution would be to simply have both work as you say. After they are activated you can’t use any abilities that require WP.

This would solve most issues.

The idea that you MUST use those skills to be competitive in late game is not really true. It will definitely be harder for sure but that is the point, making more tactics relevant. If any one combination is a must that good indication it is OP.

As you can play without this combination and still win it is a bad argument that it is needed. I have not played the game as long as most people here but I have stayed away from the most devastating combination as that give a more interesting game forcing me to use more innovative strategies and actually using the map layout as much to my benefit as I can.

I will continue to refuse to use the most OP combinations as that makes the game more interesting and challenging. The current situation is a bit ridiculous with some skills and this is why I like the nerf to Dash as this skill comes quite early. I hope they have the courage to do the same with some of the other in my opinion damaging combinations.

Yes!
The legacy X-Com games are the epitome of “Map is too large”!
There’s a reason why all the most famous mods for Open XCOM come with a bughunt feature!

I think it is safe to say that most oldschool x-com players find the original map sizes just large enough. That bughunt feature is just a bandaid for aliens not roaming enough / not actively seeking your soldiers / no fleeing mechanic.

That being said, the map size of PP does not even come close, so I don’t really understand the problem here.

Well, we’re all entitled to our own opinions.
The engagement distance in Phoenix Point only rears it’s ugly head before you get 20 Speed on your characters, but it’s there.

Example of the situation: During a nest mission I destroyed one of the spawning sentinels, then locates the other across the map. I decided that i’d go ahead and move with my heavy in the vanguard and have everyone else follow. It took five turns of moving, at full speed, to go from one engagement area to the next. That’s not movement limiting my tactical options, that’s five turns of waiting just to get to where I make choices to begin with.

Never said we weren’t. I just think that yours is a minority right now. I am sorry. There is also an objective gameplay reason for larger maps, it can be easily argued as part of the tactical gameplay. You play differently on larger maps when it comes to how you chose to advance and how to position your soldiers for example. They are also harder to rush and are simply more intense and immersive.

5 turns OhMyGod … sigh
That’s not the standard situation, though. I do them systematically clockwise and pretty much never have that situation you describe. That said, I’m not overly fond of nests either, but that’s mainly due to persisting lighting/fow bugs and too narrow corridors where only one soldier fits.

Oh dear…it has been 7 months. Just make it:

Rapid Clearance (5WP, 1-2AP cost): The action cost of proficient weapons use is reduced by 1(can not be 0). Gain 1 action point when killing enemy. Lasts for one turn

Simple to understand. It synergises better with Onslaught, but cant be abused in an indefinite loop

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Looks good to me

Maybe refine to:

Rapid Clearance (5WP): The action point cost of using proficient weapons is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1) till the end of the turn. Gain 1 action point when killing enemy.

BTW, how would it work with Quick Aim and Boom Blast?

EDIT: on the refined text not sure if it’s better, I just found the 1-2 AP cost confusing and I tried to mirror the description for Boom Blast.

There are 2 different canny topics for RC. Maybe they should be consolidated into one listing all proposals so that game design can decide on which one fits best.

Don’t touch that 1-2 AP :stuck_out_tongue:. It’s proposed action point cost to activate the skill (depending on how you want to balance it).

For 5WP, 2AP cost skill’s a little more restrictive with movement, than with 1AP cost. I find 2AP better option though

Boom blast/quick aim does not change much here. Assuming RC activation cost is 2AP, you could perform 2 attacks for 1AP (same as currently: 2 attacks for 2AP, since you have 4AP)

Not sure about this… Kinda confusing that you spend APs without doing any action… With similar abilities - where the character goes into a “mode” - there is no AP cost.

But let’s come back to it after dealing with Quick Aim and Boom Blast, because I do see a couple of problems in the following scenarios:

  1. I cast Quick Aim before casting Rapid Clearance and I’m wielding a pistol or a PDW, so I can use them for 0 AP. After I cast Rapid Clearance, does the cost go back to 1 AP?

  2. I cast Rapid Clearance and then I cast Quick Aim. Is the cost of using the pistol/PDW reduced to 0?

Same thing but with Boom Blast and mounted weapons.

I imagine that it would follow a logical setup:

This updated RC would set cost to 1.
Then, any -cost ability would reduce the cost by 1.

I think it’s not a bad scenario because Quick Aim only works for one action, so while it can generate AP it’s also a vast amount of Will. And mounted weapons are 1/turn so you’re getting, at best, 1 free AP from them.
The problem gets with Boom Blast and Grenade/Rocket Launcher, though. Is it worth adding a Special Exception in that case?

Your changes to Rapid Clearance are weird, it becomes even less of a ‘clean up wounded enemies’ ability and even more of a ‘fire off all your ammo’ ability that directly competes with Adrenaline Rush, which I don’t really like.

Though it does bring to mind that Rapid Clearance COULD instead give you a big mobility penalty when active instead. So you still can do some crazy rapid-fire killing, but you can’t rely on the immense damage potential of shotguns, and even explosives are limited if you can’t reposition.

For balancing purpose, with reducing AP cost starting AP pool needs to be reduced too, so that character won’t get too many shoots (so default in both cases is 2 missed shots).

Assumption is, RC reduces action cost by 1AP, but only if result will be >0. So if cost is already 1 or 0, RC would simply not reduce it further. It wouldn’t interfere with QuickAim as far as pistols/pdws are concerned.
It’s worth noting, that QuickAim’s reduction does not stack. Therefore RC’s shouldn’t stack either. Same would apply to Boom Blast. So in the end no matter how many skills you pop you won’t reduce skill cost by more than by 1AP

It’s not like AR, it does not set cost to 1. It reduces cost by 1 (if possible). Heavier weapons would still cost 2AP.

Right! Complete misread on my part.
But the operation logic would still work. It would reduce to 1 to a minimum of 1, and then the other abilities would reduce it to 0 since they do not have a minimum.

I see. It makes sense to have an AP cost of 1 (otherwise it’s too big of a penalty if you fail to score a kill after casting), but I think you could also do without it (if the devs see it as unnecessary complex/hard to grasp).

Regarding Quick Aim and Boom Blast, it would allow some net generation of APs, unfortunately. But the Assault/Sniper PDW specialist really needs to generate 2APs per kill… 1 AP is not enough to keep the chain going. Also, Gorgon Eye-A is the culprit there and it could do with a nerf.

So does this look OK to you:

Rapid Clearance (5WP 1AP): Attacks with proficient weapons cost 1 AP less (to a minimum of 1 AP) until the end of the turn. Recover 1 AP for each enemy killed.

?

(I tried to use words from other skill descriptions already in the game)

It certainly does. I never understood why a PDW should be the best Weapon in the game. The jump from 20 damage with the VDM to 40 damage makes no sense whatsoever. It wasn’t even touched in the patch while nerfing a bunch of other Weapons meaning its relative power increased even further.

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So no enemies spawned or attempted to engage your squad in 5 turns? That’s supposed to be the point. If it’s too easy to deal with those, that’s another issue.

Extra enemies wouldn’t do much to make me enjoy the mission more either. It’s not particularly easy either, given I had a soldier with two limbs short in that mission. The two particular encounters, one at each spawner, were pretty good! The small corridors make for good fights.

The way from one encounter to the next, though? Bleh.

Quick Aim & RC could work like Quick Aim & Rage Burst, so that Quick Aim simply doesn’t have any effect when RC is active, RC should always calculate with the base AP of the used weapon.
For QA&RB it seems to be accepted, almost everyone knows that it simply doesn’t work together and I don’t see much complaints about it. So why not the same solution for QA&RC?
And then the same for Boom Blast.