Phoenix Point declining player-base

I mean as computer calculation power. But sadly without even an average AI, whatever you do, game destined for fail.

If you can’t make a good AI, then you will not give debuffing or limiting tools to player like WC. Even, you will give more TB or tactical buffs to enemies.

Please, sometimes I feel aliens of Xcom 1994 on 020/28Mhz 2MB chip 4MB fast played smarter. OK they had way better weapons early on.

Now you say Athlon 880K 16GB nVIDIA 1650 is bad caluclator (win7, win10 might require more for WINDOWS TEMELEMTRY)

Maybe its choice of Unity and Epic?

They said the problem is free aim calculations. I don’t more other details but they were clear that there can’t be done anything more.

They are probably right as I can’t imagine or compare with anything as free aim is a unique feature. There are few games done that but few…

Still I think that leaving cover type problems can be handled somehow, but they just don’t bother things if it does not break the game at unplayable state. They tried to fix fire and viral damage before FS and both are not better then old times maybe even worse but they flagged them “fixed” and go on.

You’ve been exclusively negative about the game in pretty much all of the posts I’ve come across. You also feel that the developers haven’t taken your feedback on board. It’s pretty clear that the game isn’t going to be what you think it should be. Maybe it’s time to move on?

I tried but it calls me time to time. Can you hear it too?

Please undo free aim and improve AI. There is always something that CAN be done.

Tell them, for such attitude, they would be shot in Communist Bulgarian Army

Bad AI is caused by free aim calculations? Good one.

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Maybe that passess in Bulgarian parliament?

I ll say it bluntly - БУГАРСКА (А И СРПСКА) ПОСЛА.

Then I vote for free aim out!

Paradox strategy games are very sandbox in nature (they often don’t even have winning conditions) and frantkly that’s what Phoenix Point was meant to be. XCOM, but with more flexibility, paths to take between each playthrough, unique identity to aquire. Maybe not on the level of Crusader Kinds, but more then farily rigit Firaxis XCOM allowed for.

Reading your post, it seems two of us will agree on many things, so lets not fight over tags assigned to the game. If you want to call it RPG, so be it. To me it would suggest that balance problems of PP come from desire to allow players to roleplay, which I don’t think is the case. :man_shrugging:

I have nothing against allowing people roleplay or do anything they want really but not at the cost of destroying strategy game. And it’s done that way. It’s like they looked at the whole gaming market and thought this would be better for all players and consequently made PP that way. But they hadn’t had all players. Their target group was very specific and they failed to identify it. And the mismatch between target group, they could reach, and product that was delivered is the reason of PP downfall or lack of success, whatever you want to call it.

There is such thing? :slight_smile:

No. Bad AI is because of Bad AI. But now improving AI behaviors would add up to the calculations which AI is performing, that would slow down enemy turn for a good amount of time. People don’t want to wait for too long, that is why probably AI won’t be touched. Maybe with some small exceptions.

Yes, until 1989.

No. Bad AI is because of Bad AI. But now improving AI behaviors would add up to the calculations which AI is performing, that would slow down enemy turn for a good amount of time. People don’t want to wait for too long, that is why probably AI won’t be touched. Maybe with some small exceptions.

I wish longer turns and was happy once I have seen a bit of longer turn / improved AI.

But once in all fixes.

And got faster CPU so turns are equalized and AI improved

I’m the same, but it’s a purist position and very likely a minority one. Most people just want to shoot crabs.

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I guess it is just bad wording. Free aim per se has nothing to do with AI, but ballistic model does. I guess number of calculations to measure exposure in line of sight would grow exponentially in more complex AI algorithms. Other games use cheap grid approximation, which would be useless in PP. In a system with mesh accuracy (I mean lack of hitboxes, not in-game accuracy) such exposure calculations have to be pretty damn expensive. Collision detection is mesh accurate not only for characters but also for every prop that stands between you and enemy in LoS.

Such ballistic model is very ambitious, and unique, and makes game stand out of other titles in a genre, but in my opinion it is in the very same time the biggest flaw of the game and is the major reason of why devs will struggle hard to make game any better.

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I still think just blaming the system is a cheap excuse too. I just can’t trust of SG’s words so much about this. Why?

Why are the haven defenders AI is brain dead when they are a bit better as enemies? I can’t see a reason. AI is AI…

There is lame healing at AI too. They heal even they got a little damage. This could be handled just adding a threshold to AI about when they need to heal.

Again, Forsaken got worse AI and Pure got worse then that…

If the problem is about ballistic, why do melee units effected?

There are so many questions you can’t answer with just blaming the system here.

I don’t blame the system for everything. I totally agree, that making AI not as utterly stupid as it is right now won’t have such impact on performance and should be done ASAP. But I do blame the system that it makes tactical options bland and weak, it just doesn’t fit into TBS and all related turn-based approximations. The system also wont allow more complex tactical AI (like flanking, cooperation, loss prevention and so on), there is no chance for that.

Because exposure is most likely calculated for both sides. Melee enemy doesn’t need to shot, but you can’t deny it have to calculate if it is exposed to be shot or not. And since there is no perception limit, and line of sight is mesh accurate, it does have to calculate such exposure for every possible target on battlescape (with some optimisations, of course). It may even be true, that non-essential AI (defenders and such), have their AI dumbed down a lot to reduce the need of such calculations.

While I do not work at SG and my answers will be nothing more but assumptions, I do have broad gamedev knowledge and good problem solving skills. I do have trust issues with SG as well, but I can see why the system may have issues, nothing more.

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I did not mean you as you. I tried to say, you can’t get your answers with only one excuse as different units with same weapons got different AI quality.

Free aim is good to have and probably there is some optimizing options for the calculations but SG could not do it or most likely just does not want to invent more over it.

As I sad again, game is already finished, good or bad. It’s done. We should not expect any magical patch or development to change the game as there is always a danger to break more things.

Just for balance, if you can’t code a good AI, why do you give so powerful options for player at all?

So every decision at game design got so big questions and flows…

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Yup. That’s on them. Instead of reducing PP power level to match Pandoran, they have buffed pandorans, and then PP, and than pandorans… and then everything escalated so quiclky so they have started to nerf PP, and pandorans, and buff pandorans and continue this never-ending cycle without major rebalance so badly needed. Just a little buff, a little nerf every here and there… but it was already too late and whole balance turned bonkers. :stuck_out_tongue: And they can’t fix it with better AI because better AI would also need a major rebalance because the power creep is over 9000. And they are too affraid of loosing players to do that, which I get. :stuck_out_tongue: It is not that I don’t understand them, they are screwed either way so they decided to play safe. :stuck_out_tongue:

SG now:

51lHFCd-hEL.AC

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Fun part is, I don’t think people are searching for the PP about it’s an easy game or not…

It’s a TBS game and TBS fans will play it. Casuals already leaves the game with a short period of gameplay and probably rage quit when the first NJ assault just kills their soldiers with a return fire.

It’s so stupid.

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Exactly! :smiley: The amount of things that will punch a newbie in a face just to follow up a kick to the balls is huge. If they really care about casuals, they need to rethink and rewrite few things from scratch. :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit: But I’m affraid SG solution to that problem will be a Tutorial: “How to enjoy being beaten in the face and kicked in the balls. Don’t forget to checkout upcoming vechicle DLC.”