Some Arthrons (even top tier) have only one weapon (Shieldbearers, for example, only have Pincers, at least in my current playthrough). Others have only 2.
Some Tritons have healing ability and some have Pain Chameleon. Also, they generally have less armor and make for good targets for ARs at longer range. For ARs with shred, you benefit from shooting them multiple times.
Some Sirens you want to disable the tail first, some the head. Depending on the situation you might want to do it with an AR (if you can reliably shoot the same body part twice), or not, or with something in combination with an AR…
I’m not saying that ARs are optimal, I’m saying they are viable.
You miss the spitting head. For that reason, I mostly see them with 2 to 3 weapons.
That chameleon is the teleport by hit, yes? So at my hero play they mostly got piranha or sniper versions. If you touch them with AR, you will lose them for good with low damage. You say long range, how long? How many bullets will hit? Maybe 1-2 per burst and if you don’t have special perk, forget the long range for human size targets already.
Sirens are one of the best AI’s at getting a position at cover or LoS. So at the end of turn, if Siren gets close to you, it will probably stay at a weird position which you need to move and change location to able to shoot it. Sometimes you need to go far for it if there are any buildings or solid covers. They NEVER, I repeat " they NEVER stand at a position which my soldiers can shoot them without any movement"… only if there is a solid open and they run for MC like ability… with this, you should be very lucky to able to shoot twise with a AR rifle.
If optimal is %60 usable, then viable will be %40… so yeah and it makes that one of the worst weapons in the game, which becomes “useless” after mid game. I rised that to “good enough” with modding so it’s not my problem. I just still think you are very optimistic.
Nop, I’m counting it. My Shieldbearers don’t have spitting head. Only Arthrons with 3 weapons are Scourges and Myrmidons, and only their top tiers have any significant armor. Myrmidon’s carapace has 20 armor, IIRC.
On mine only Ghouls (viral) and Marksman (snipers) have Pain Chameleon. With these I go for disabling one shooting arm, since they can’t heal. You can do it with an AR, or anything else. The advantage of using AR is these Tritons have high stealth, so you have to get close to them to spot them anyway. Once they have a broken arm they can hide all they want
Against Maniacs (Tritons with ARs) and Thugs (with SGs), who have the healing ability it’s usually OK to engage them at medium distance.
Of course they do sometimes, though they do try to end their turn in cover. Never say never
In any case, I don’t understand how that is a point against the ARs - you still need 2 shots from an SR to disable a Siren’s head. Just with ARs it means 4APs, and with SRs it’s 6.
You always count things with “most damage possible”. You need to be at short range to hit with every bullets if you wanna go for the body part. You tell me to kill a snipers arm with AR will solve the problem and I need to get ultra close to that sniper to do that… Sniper… getting close… a sniper which can hit for your 3/4 HP with one shot… same for siren… for that 4 AP i need to go close to a siren… and if I can’t kill it, I am dead at that range.
Again I just want to tell me my points from my experiences and as always you got your own totally different game style. Yep.
I don’t think both views are necessarily mutually exclusive.
From my experience you have often enough missions where you not have go close because the enemies are already right from the start nearby your squaddies or it is more like a labyrinth like nests. Then @VOLAND’s points are viable and ARs are more effective than SR, more flexible and a viable choice.
On the other hand there are also not much lesser missions on maps where the enemies are pretty far away and then ARs have a hard time (except you buff them) compared to SR, where they can shine and are almost the best choice as @drages mentioned.
So I think it’s not only a different play stile but also dependant on the mission and the map setting.
Explosives and fire is different and yeah they destroy everything. Snipers are good too. Just burst weapons got problems about that if it’s far then short range as it should be at some point.
Snipers have problems on short range, Explosives in Nests and buildings, where ARs and Shotguns start to shine, so that is a problematic comparison IMO.
Or do you only get missions where you can always use snipers on long range or explosives?
I highly doubt it.
I have had countless missions on my last campaign where my snipers or bombardiers are mostly useless because the enemies are running in buildings right in their first turn before I even can spot them. Or the mentioned Nests, that you get even in the latest stages of the game. Here my Assaults are doing the most of the job and of course not only with shotguns, because ARs are simply more viable on any distance over 3-4 tiles when shotguns have a problem and I don’t can get closer because of many reasons. Also the best weapon to kill hatching sentinels out of their activation range are still ARs even in the latest game stages, 2 bursts and they are down and only the Virophage or ancient SR can do the same … for 6 AP, so 2 turns or additionally 6 WP
Also, the Daimos laser AR is a special case for almost any range. It is accurate enough to hit viable at mid and with some accuracy buff on long ranges and because of its comparatively high basic damage per AP is also a good choice as well on short range. I assume that’s the reason why it is so “weak” (what it isn’t in my opinion) compared to the rest of all the weapons.
It is proven that this game can be played very differently. In this case too
Except in Nest or in Anu village I can use both always just scary effective. Moreover I have ALWAYS some opponent’s standing around in the open. Spotting in turn 1 is also very doable.
AR’s are for me not the best weapons but okay. With advanced tactics (shred before use, buffs via skills) they are pretty effective.
Of course, but only SOME and what is with the rest? Especially in HDs i have to clean up buildings with my Assaults and my Snipers are often not longer very useful after the first turn. My Heavies can also do a viable job in buildings if they are get in there before my Assaults have cleaned up anything. Happens often enough thanks to jump jet and coming from the roof. But not with explosives, here the Deceptor is also a brutal weapon, not to mention how handy War Cry is in such situations.
And that’s it, I for my self will not have much more, especially because of …
After “some” are dead the snowball effect has started (reduced number of opponents, reduced will points on enemy side). The rest is not a real thread now. I can wait for them or kill them with rest of the team. In this case snipers and bombards are let’s say from turn 2 not very useful, but they did the MAIN job to be successful without any risk
How many is “some” for you? Even in Synedrion or NJ heaven defences I can’t kill much more then 3-4 enemies in the first turn with my Snipers or explosives (of course only when I don’t (ab)use really advanced tactics with Frenzy and RC). As long as there are no Chirons or Sirens with them, then there are enough left over that runs in the buildings to make big trouble. Waiting for them could be a long wait because they almost focus on the objectives first. If I have to rescue civilians then I get a problem with WP if I not go to help them (beside the fact that I don’t like to give anything to the Pandorans). The WP of the Pandorans is risen up pretty high, even Arthrons get much more than 20 WP nowadays, so this also a long way to go to panic them.
This is pretty good and enough. I snipe/bomb mostly 4-5 near to dead. At end-game one of them is a Chiron or Siren. Now you have a huge advantage. Their number is now equal or lower as yours. Plus: you have support soldiers. They can do the dirty work and risky actions.
Edit: Oh I forgot: the near dead enemy’s are a happy meal for Rapid Clearance in the next turn. Snowball
And you play on Legend? Is Legend easier than Veteran difficulty?
Or I’m probably really not good enough to do what you describe.
I can only do something similar when I go the way to abuse Sneak Attack and all the other fancy stuff. With “normal” soldiers I’m mostly not able to kill or nearly kill so many Pandorans inclusive one Chiron or Siren in the first turn. I mean the late Chirons have up to 1000 HP, how many snipers and bombards you have with your Squad to get these down so easy plus additional 3-4 of the minor pandorans?
Like I sayed: I don’t kill them. Also edited my last post. The 4-5 opponents or sometimes less are „prepared“ (shred, disabled body parts) to die at next attack and can make buffs to Will points and AP very easy. This can also happen with 1 turn offset, but it happens for sure.
Edit: I play with full team (8)
Mostly with 2 snipers and 2-3 bombards
By the way: Legend is not much harder if you know the most powerful methods. Also: I played on Legend only in my last playthrough for the first time.
Usually I don’t play any game on hardest difficulty (exception is xcom 2 after many many hours experience)
If there is a Chiron yours snipers and bombards have a job even if the crabs are in the buildings, for sure
Yes. Single class and many more.
The real advantage for this method is absolutely NOT the damage output. It’s the NO RISK moderate reward. I wouldn’t recommend this method because it’s just not fun after few missions, always the same and very stationary. All you need is 2 speedy scouts and 2+ bombards. But we discussed it already in @VOLANDs thread.
Yes we discussed that, but I still can’t believe that you are able to wreck down so many enemies in your first turn.
I mean I have done so many missions where my Heavies even with Boom Blast don’t have the range to hit ANYTHING with their grenade launcher in my first turn, especially in some of the larger NJ and Synedrion maps where they spawn completely on the other side of the map. As best close to some civilians, also far away, that even my fastest Assaults can’t reach them in one turn (without Frenzy). And I really hate to lose any of the civilians.
So I have to move closer without get any grenade out, maybe a rocket or Destiny shot, and when I don’t do that I lose even more of these civilians and the Pandorans will mostly not come to me before they have finished for what they are there. My Snipers can do something even on this large distances, but that is really not enough to hold them of. And after the first turn almost any enemy is in a building or in cover, again no really good targets for the explosives and then also not longer for my Snipers.
I don’t use more than 2 Heavies, but I don’t think that one or two more would be such a difference.
But anyway, I think I will mostly stay with my more mobile tactic with more Assaults but lesser Bombards. What you describe seems really not to be very funny and also: no risk no fun
But I will try it for sure on some missions. I mean Phase 2 for NJ is definitely the best mission to abuse Boom Blast most effectively … as you have shown in the mentioned thread
Well, we play the same game in a very different way. For example: I have not much and often any use for the infiltrator. But I know that this class „can“ be powerful.
