Massive fan of previous games, from Gollup to turn based games in general. Really trying to see the positives in this one but struggling as I’m hit in the face by SO many problems.
Most issues are being covered so will not repeat. However, need to check this…
I’ve leveled a character up to their max level 7. Now they don’t earn xp on missions or in training, if left at a base. Is this meant to be the case? Seems completely broken for character development if so. I hope not and it is just another bug, in a bloody long list, of issues this game has.
7 is the max level (and therefor don’t earn xp anymore) . You can use the shared Phoenix point skill points to level up their skills beyond what they got from leveling up.
This game isn’t yet finished, it’s borderline Early Access except that it has already all its planed contents, more or less. So argue about it is difficult.
Myself I have troubles with Gollops games but PP is opening hopes.
For me old XCOM is no match with JA2 and even JA1, but I admit JA1&2 have a lot of problems, and it’s not clear how make a modern game from them.
A lot of hope for PP, I would even suggest to fans of tactical shooter combats consider buy for support anyway, it would be a bet, but in my opinion worth it if the genre is something for you.
@Vipre - didnt’ mention anything about them hitting a limit eg. 1000xp and I’m sitting there waiting for them to hit 1001xp. That would be fucking stupid. I didn’t explain myself quite as well as I could have, obviously.
I got a character to level 7, they are not at max xp, far from it. On missions they are involved in they cease to gain any xp for anything they do. Yes the Phoenix point skill pool will level them up and I happy to dive in to that later in the game when that increases. However, I wanted clarification on why characters just all of sudden stop contributing to their own leveling and/or the teams’ communal xp stockpile.
I have recently started up a new campaign and, like always, I’m enjoying the hell out of it. Just hope my play through this time isn’t hampered by game-breaking bugs and not just minors.
If they’re level 7 they’re at max xp because there’s no level 8 so nothing to gain xp toward.
This isn’t a bug, it’s by design. You get 300 Skill Points, 50 each level, to build out a character and you have to decide what you want to spend them on because it’s not enough to max out every stat and take every ability at once. That’s just standard Role Playing/Tabletop Gaming stuff.
I just wish that once at max level they didn’t eat up XP from missions that could have gone to other soldiers: XP is still attributed to those max-level soldiers when they’re on missions based on their contributions, but since they’re already at max level and can’t gain more XP that XP is essentially wasted. So keeping your max-level soldiers on a team in the field with ones that aren’t max-level yet just throws away a lot of mission XP.
So don’t take them on the missions, because the division of XP evenly to each party member is standard RPG stuff since the earliest D&D games in the 70s.
The idea of a level cap is unrealistic - every day WE learn new skills and knowledge, improve our capabilities.
Of course human progression is open ended and the skills we can learn limited only by availability, finance and motivation.
It might be a little hard for PP to support “infinite” levelling with its current format but even so, 10 or 20 should be easily achievable within the game mechanics…7 does seem far too low.
It’s not a RPG. XCOM1&2 don’t have more levels or one more I don’t remind. Jagged Alliance will hardly level up 7 times a mercenary, perhaps for those quite rookie but not that many level up anyway.
Level up is faster in PP but once level 7 is reached it’s not finished because of global skill points.
I’m not a big fan of the “realism” argument… saying something in a “game” is unrealistic and should therefore be changed is such a moot point to make. At a certain point you have to remember that this is a game and parameters need to be set to keep a balanced/fun experience… not all games should work exactly like reality otherwise the majority of games would be terrible… so agree to disagree there.
I will agree that I’d like to see a rework in PP’s current leveling system to allow for more levels. Maybe 10 would be nice… but they certainly should not be limitless, otherwise you’d be able to get a full team of max level, max attributes & all available abilities way to easily, especially with how the training centers currently work.
10 and implementing someone else’s idea of that last level 10 ability being a single class exclusive one. Gives you an extra 150 SP to play with and a new choice to make regarding multi-classing.
Sure 10 is cool, but it’s a huge amount of work and rework on tuning, balances, op holes cleaning, exponential increase of combinations (or perhaps not).
Moreover 3 more skills per class that are great and fit each class is no way a simple design task, when they could break the gameplay, and many more constraints.
Yes, but in standard RPGs you don’t usually end up with one party member at max level while the rest are still going until maybe the very end of the campaign - they’re meant to level up as a group. Also PP doesn’t distribute XP evenly (which wouldn’t be as bad), it distributes XP by mission contribution (kills, objectives, etc) - so naturally higher-level soldiers will contribute more (especially level 7 ones with their capstone perks), and eat up a bigger share of the mission XP. I think that’s the key flaw in your argument, comparing a game (PP) which doesn’t distribute XP evenly to RPGs which do.
To follow with your D&D example: DMs are encouraged to bring new characters in at the same level as the existing party rather than starting them back at level 1 while everybody else is at a much higher level (which is essentially what you’re doing in Phoenix Point). I don’t think I’ve ever heard of a DM with half the party at 20 and the other half level 16-18 or lower, let alone then giving the second half of the party almost no XP because the first half was doing all the work.
Also, encouraging players to just dump their max-level soldiers because they take away XP from other squad members (or sideline them until you can make a full squad of max-level soldiers so that they’re not stealing XP from anyone else) seems like a… weird design decision, to say the least. “Here’s your shiny new toy that you’ve been working towards, but we’re going to punish you for using it until you have enough that they’re not special any more”.
I agree that it’s weird and pointless to have soldiers level 7 lost the XP:
Firstly mission XP could be given to non level 7 soldiers only, it’s not realistic but it looks a good design choice in game context.
For XP from damages, half of it from level 7 soldiers could be spread between non level 7 soldiers.
But all of that will have a side effect, extreme fast level up of a soldier in a team of level 7 soldiers, and pretty sure many players will feel it very weird.
I think that 20 levels would be good. Of course that would need to work differently than right now, so no skill at each level, lower SP gain per level, increase skill SP cost etc. I have some values but I don’t want to spoil what I’m preparing, because it still may change.
Could use similar solution to Battle Brothers - veteran levels.
Exp requirements that trump what’s need up to seventh level and fewer points per level. Of course prohibit gaining veteran experience via training on base.
So you won’t get much past level 7, but exp isn’t exactly wasted either.
The problem of 20 levels and perhaps even veteran levels I never reach in BB, would be to make a soldier death a total disaster. Or at this point they are supermen.
