Suggestion: Local HQ, low threat mission spawning

Idea from another topic (Link to post: The new skillpoint system in leviathan patch).

Instead of passive XP/SP gain from Training Facility, please provide additional facility that will spawn randomly a “low level” missions.

Since late early game, DDA scales all enemies globaly and there are no more low threat missions that could be handled by untrained (not in par with current DDA difficulty) recruits. Such facility could spawn a difficulty downscaled mission, just for recruits stationed in base and manaully selected for duty (limit of mission cap, with difficulty calculated for selected team), like…

  • Scavenging (low resources gain),

  • Ambush on patrol,

  • Local settlement defense (virtual settlement, not Haven defense so lost mission doesn’t do anything apart from casulties suffered by recruits),

  • Nest like experience to clear caverns located near base.

…and so on. Missions that resembles threat handled main Phoenix Point forces, but downscaled to local skirmishes. It would, apart from obvious XP and SP gain, give the feeling that not all threats are cosmic and there are local problems someone has to handle. It will make new soldiers training much more organic, and they will at some point join main forces already battle hardened.

Canny: https://phoenixpoint.canny.io/feedback/p/local-hq-replace-passive-training-with-mission-spawning

5 Likes

Such a team needs an Instructor / Officer

And this concept will cut off the need to take 1-3 recruits on a mission. I think it’s a loss of fun.

The idea is to allow them participating in own missions. What is fun is absolutely subjective, so if you find fun taking them on a DDA scaled mission, feel free. If you’re doing it regardless of existence of Training Centers right now, that’s just another feature/possibility you don’t have to use. :slight_smile:

I’m totally agree PP need more layer variety in their mission and random side mission.

*just my 2 pandorans.

Edit :

Training Center facility should train like a real training center which cost a couple days or week and some resource such as food maybe. A small game in the game virtual map to train rookie that could be cool. So if player failed to accomplish their training, character won’t gain any XP/SP at all or player can choose to use AI to control them in background but the consequence would be less XP/SP. Any down soldier would be sent to medical bay and takes couple time to recover, no permadeath in training.

More depth/complex, add a virtual mission in their training based on each character level and choose XP or SP which take some resources and some requirement from exploring the havens or R&D tech dept.

To repeat my response to the other thread:

TBH, I don’t want to faff around with pointless low-level missions just to get my new recruits trained up.
I thought the TC idea was a clever way of getting your new recruits up to a level where they could compete with the big boys without having to go through all that rigmarole - it was just unbalanced is all.

It’s too early to say whether the new 20+10 point system is set at the right level, but it’s a step in the right direction.

Bottom line: I have no objection to PP implementing low-level missions as long as we don’t have to do them just to get our rookies up to scratch. If other people like grinding through what I see as pointless missions to get their newbies trained up, knock yerself out - just don’t force me to use my precious gaming time on pointless missions when I’d rather be progressing the story.

So please do not make this an ‘Instead of passive XP/SP gain’ - make it an additional option for those that want it, and leave it as it is for those of us who are happy with not having to nurse our rookies through baby-wheels missions.

2 Likes

Sure, that’s just stand alone idea for additional facility. Desn’t mean removing other ways of getting higher level soldiers, be it Training Center, nursing in high level missions or recruiting already experienced ones. There are other damn good ideas by @BoredEngineer here: The new skillpoint system in leviathan patch .

There should simply in the late game some low threat missions. Thats it. There you could go with a weak team

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Sure, but considering flat 10 SP for successful mission introduced last patch, it would be a random “Free 10 SP for Everyone!” event. :slight_smile:

Unless there will be difficulty autoscaling for every mission (and it will be hard to combine with DDA) or diminishing rewards for mission doing (hard to avoid balance exploits) it will not work as intended.

An idea that I have in my head but don’t know if it really makes sense:
The SP per mission could be distributed based on the experience of the soldiers in such a way that those with the least experience receive the most SP and those with the most experience the least to none at all, if the character is maxed out anyway.

Example, please do not take numbers too seriously, can of course turn out differently, I am only concerned with the basic idea:
Rookies receive 20 SP each
Medium advanced (level 4-6?) receive 10 SP each
Levels 7 up receive 5 SP each
Fully leveled do not receive any SP at all, maybe shift them to the ‘greenhorns’

In this way, a mixed team of rookies, medium and advanced characters will be able to adjust themselves over time.

Background:
In my current game, close to the end, I have a team (my ‘main team’) of 8 fairly mixed characters with one from the start of the game that is fully maxed out. The differences between the individual characters is quite considerable and since everyone always receives the same SP per mission little will change. The ‘stragglers’ will always lag behind the more advanced and the one maxed out character will continue to get senseless SP, which are somehow ‘wasted’ (actually he has 150 SP and i can do nothing with them and yes, he is pretty OP and can handle some missions alone).

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Very good idea (would make SP gains logarythmic instead of linear), but tackles different problem. It doesn’t affect the fact DDA being ruthless for training rookies and safest, but not very exciting, way is to herd them in Training Centers. I thought about giving them a chance to level up and gain SP in combat without being put against DDA pumped up by main Phoenix forces.

Thx, good extension of the idea and yes, it might have been better to post it in a separate thread but I thought it somehow fits at least a bit :wink:

I understand your basic idea, but to be honest I’ve had little trouble integrating rookies into my more experienced teams (apart from the problem described above that the difference between the mixed characters hardly gets any smaller as the game progresses). So far I play ‘only’ on normal difficulty, maybe it’s not longer that easy on hard or legend.

Edit:
Improved a bit of nonsense, sorry but english is not my main language and google translator sometimes a bit tricky :upside_down_face:

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I don’t see much in the suggestion itself, personally I feel low threat missions shouldn’t disappear of the board to begin with. at a certain point the game didn’t spawn any nest anymore and directly spawned lairs before attacking a settlement. I would be for reverting that and using these “easy” missions (low power haven assaults that really only kill off already near death settlements but are otherwise repelled and nest missions) to allow the player to use rookies (or vets if they so wish) to prevent the spawn of the lairs.

Xp gain per level should be buffed somewhat to make TC’s more effective, I agree that they shouldn’t be used to insta train soldiers that rival the field veterans. but a 60% nerf is a tad excessive in my opinion.

Definitely, but it doesn’t blend well with DDA and current flat SP gain for successful mission.

Maybe I’ve described it wrong. It’s not that it is hard per se training a rookie along with experience squad. My issue is that a rookie is not so useful and require babysitting and staging situations that will give him XP and he won’t kick the bucket. Not to mention, going somewhere rookies only. It would be slaughter :).

Hmmm …
Rookies are not so useful, ok, I’ll go with that.

But I don’t babysit nor stage them, they are with my team, they can do something also useful and they gain little XP and finally a bunch of SP by only be there on missions. For shure, this way it takes pretty long to level them but they gain a good ammount of SP and so have mostly more SP to spend per level as with the old system. When my first rookie levels up for the first time, he already earned around 50-60 SP from missions, together with the levelup 70-80 on level 2, some of which I spent on his statistics and some of which I saved for his skills.

Edit:
In my current campaign i tried to go almost every mission with a maximum of 8 member per team, maybe that way the rookies didn’t need this babysitting, they were simply a welcome support for the whole team.

And yeah, a whole team of rookies only would be a bad idea :crazy_face:

It’s quite a realistic scenario if you don’t save scum and loose top team. As game places a lot of focus on individual soldiers and you can have a cascade in a mission where lose of 1 or 2 leads to much higher expectations of the rest which they can’t handle. It’s FiXcom syndrome.

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In pretty much every other game of this genre you have to build up a reserve team. You do this by cycling your troops from the start of the game, not by being offered easier missions.

The problem with Phoenix point is that there are too many missions that you need to perform preventing you from keeping soldiers in reserve.

They could address this by making it easier to recruit new troops.

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It’s only a realistic scenario if you haven’t planned ahead.

I run a pretty lean crew - currently I’m down to 14 men because of a nasty near-TPW - but I filled most of the dead-men’s shoes with Recruits-in-waiting from my TCs and I’m currently feeding the next lot into the roster.

My point is: that’s what TCs are there for - to make sure that you never have to field a full team of Rookies because they’re quietly training up in the background while you get on with the main job of saving the world. Sure, they were OP previously, because you could get an entire Lvl 7 Squad in a matter of days or weeks without ever having to risk them in a fight, but it’s actually pretty easy to fill the slots of your high level squad(s) with new replacements as long as you’ve planned for it. The balance may not be quite right yet, but give it time.

And you don’t have the tedium of having to nurse your Rookies though a series of pointless low-level missions just to get them up to speed.

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Sure. Never said you shouldn’t build reserves but in pretty much every other game of this genre you’re not punished just by doing good job (and basicaly thats what DDA does). Enemy pumped up by DDA has healthpool of over 300, armor of 40 and hits like a truck. Good luck taking him down with recruits. :stuck_out_tongue: Also every other game in genre keeps lower quality missions. In (F)Xcom or Xenonauts sky isn’t swarming with Battleships since mid game but keeps spawning small to medium UFOs as well. So you’re wrong, other game offers you easier missions along with much harder ones. Phoenix Point does not, because enemies are upscaled by difficulty globaly, regardless of mission type.

Good for you if you enjoy TC. I don’t. :stuck_out_tongue: Also, most fun I have in this game comes from early battles, without that Wizard vs Dragons jumping around. It would be great to have opportunity to play such missions more often. :slight_smile:

As I said earlier, I’m perfectly happy for you to do that, as long as you don’t force me to do so as well. :wink:

Nursing low-level squaddies through training wheels missions is one of the few things I dislike about LW2, to pick an obvious example.

You don’t have to, and you’re not expected to. The beauty of TCs, for those of us who like them, is that they relegate the tedious slog of getting your newbies up to scratch to a background process that involves absolutely no effort (and more importantly, valuable gaming time) at all. Simply stick them in a training base, let them mature, and fashion their SPs to fit the slot you need to fill when one of your squaddies dies. It actually takes the micromanagement out of recruitment, which works for me.

I never expect nor intend to field a replacement who is below Lvl4 - and the one time I’ve been in that predicament, I restructured my B Squad so that they could cope in the short term with some Armadillo backup while the new recruits got to Lvl 5.

Now I’m not saying that the TC system is perfect. - I was one of the loudest voices calling for it to not outpace in-field experience. I also suspect that the balance is still off - someone in another post pointed out that multi-classing still costs 50SP while we’re now only gaining 30SP per mission, for instance. But for me it is a lot less boring than rehashing endless low-level missions just to fill my roster.

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I liked more your idea about patrols, which I imagined as something like assigning tasks to the soldiers at the base (instead of assigning them to a craft, you would assign them to “patrol”). This would give them xp and some SPs, as well as increase reputation with nearby havens and their factions, with a low chance for a mission occurring (maybe ambush/scavenging/heaven defense).

I am with @MichaelIgnotus on this one, I don’t have gaming time for nursing missions.