Infiltrator Double Dmg not working update: with screenshots

Some say crossbows are silent, some say they are not. I am still playing on Miskatonic so I can’t check myself. But nevertheless there should be other silent weapons like silent AR, silent sniper…

If there is no other way to properly use infiltrator then to buy DLC, that is pretty scammy practice. If this is the case they will see no more bucks from me.

Crossbows weren’t silent.
I haven’t had the opportunity to play Leviathan yet so I can’t tell if they are silent now.

According to my tests after the patch, they are not silent.

Yes, that does not feel good, but it is not the only improvement, the other augmentations are also very powerful in some cases.

I’ll try to update my mod: pp-infiltrator-toolkit
It sets crossbows as silent and gives some indications on visibility

But the issue with stealth is not solved.

I’m unable to get a single infiltrator do double dmg. It doesn’t matter if i move or don’t move, if i use vanish or shoot with silent head or or…
In ALL cases the game says that i should do double dmg but i simply don’t.

I too had my infiltrator (75% stealth) who got into 8tile-range of a paralized (!) siren revealed only to be restealthed at the end of next turn. All other enemys where miles away, i don’t get it, feeling helpless.

Hah, it works on broodthingys in lairs. This is the only enemy so far where i managed to do doubledamage.

This was with an 100% inf standing 2 tiles away from it. He did not get revealed as far as UI told me, i think those things have simply no detection/perception.

It had 1500 HP, the bodypart 10 armor and my inf did 640 dmg with 80x10 shotgun. (so it was 800-160). Still is it correct that the game substracts doublearmor from a doubledamage shot?

No, usually not, and if it did, you should have done 600 damage (10 x (80 - 2 x 10)), but you wrote that it was 640 damage.
What could happen is that some of the bullets did not hit the 10 armor part but the 20 armor part and/or some of the bullets missed completely. If you shot directly, as shown in your screenshot, some of the bullets will relatively safely land in the structure in front of the spawnery without causing any damage. But I think you didn’t because I can’t believe that you did 640 damage with that shot.

No i aimed manually 100% circle in 10armor Body Part.
This is strange.
But then i still have sometimes snipershots missing completely though a bodypart of an enemy is highlighted and the enemy is 100% in circle.
Trying go come up with a math what happend here.

That thing has 1500hp and you see 860 remaining. The picture should only Show the remaining hp.

If you aim the 10 armor bodypart and all bullets would land there completely then you should make 700 damage (10 x (80 - 10)).
640 could mean that 8 bullets hit the 10 armor part, one bullet hits a part without any armor and one bullet misses completely, so you get 8 x 70 + 1 x 80 + 1 x 0 = 640.
But this is only one of many possibilities.

Were both target circles really on the part with 10 armor?
From this distance I would rather estimate that part of the outer circle covered other areas.

I think i can repeat this and post a sshot while aiming. Im under way now i think i can post this in 3-4h. :grinning:

So it seems that infiltrators don’t deal double damage if they don’t use a silent weapon, it seems as if the speed of sound is faster than the bullet xD

So i have two infiltrator/snipers shooting at a siren at the other end of a lair map. They have a 5% difference in stealth which should be irrelevant becaus of the distance. One of them has the silent echo bionic head, the other not.

What happend is that for both snipers the game shows that they should do double damage but only the silent weapon one does it live, the other does normal damage.

Again this is my setup:




PS: I gave the second sniper the pythagoras from sniper one so the shoot with the same weapon xD

Here the results of sniper one (the silent one):


And here is poor sniper two:


Interesting and shouldn’t be like that. Did you report that with F12? If not and you still have the save, then you should definitely do so.

I myself was not able to determine that, even though I played a lot with infiltrators, mine always got the echo head straight away.

Edit & BTW:
On your Sniper with assault rifle I recommend to try the Daimos from Synidreon, the accuracy is close to the NJ sniper rifles and armor should be no problem for a sniper. First shot quick aim with sniper rifle to dig a hole in the armor and after that 2 times quick aim with daimos and you can deal a lot more damage as with 2 times sniper rifle quick aim, i liked this build a lot.

Sorry for doublepost but just for information here in this topic.

I left a Canny feedback message in the “Stealth Nerf” topic (https://phoenixpoint.canny.io/feedback/p/stealth-nerf) about the entire stealth topic after the patch and also explicitly mentioned the point of this topic here including a cross-link.

Here the whole text again:

I would like to post my experiences with stealth after the Leviathan Patch here because it is still open and the topic is also “under review”. If a new topic should be better, then either let me know briefly or a moderator shifts everything into a new topic.

Basically, I think the changes in Leviarhan are good, the infiltrator class is no longer borderline OP but now just a little bit OP ;-).

A minimum distance to reveal was necessary in my opinion, the old system had something of a kind of godmode that made you almost invincible (with a few exceptions). One can argue about the distance of this revealing, in my opinion it could have been a little less, maybe 3 or 4 tiles instead of 5, but it is definitely better than the old one.

But now to the problems and they mainly concern the reveal after a shot if you do not use a silent weapon:

  • In my experience and also what has been described in this topic here, there are no silent weapons in the game, even the crossbows are not.

  • If I didn’t get it wrong, if you are stealthy and want to fire a shot, you should also get the bonus for “sneak attack” even if you don’t use a silent weapon. In the target preview it also looks like you would get it, but after the shot it was found that this was not the case, the opponent received “only” normal damage without a bonus (found out and then tested by myself after this thread in Forum: Infiltrator Double Dmg not working update: with screenshots, bug report with F12 should be available). This means that you can only get this bonus with indirect fire like with the grenade launcher and use it out of LOS, or …

  • The only way to receive the “sneak attack” bonus regularly with direct fire when you’re not revealed is to use the “Echo Head” augmentation and then with any weapon, because this augmentation makes all weapons silent. This augmentation can only be used if you have the DLC “Blood and Titanium”. Very bad! (If I did not own the DLC, I would probably think of other words here, because in my opinion the whole class without DLC is more or less completely undervalued if not worthless)

  • Another point regarding “vanish”:
    As I understood it, the status “vanish” should have an effect on the entire turn, also during the opponent’s turn, and so I remembered it before the patch. But now the status is ended as soon as you finish your turn and you are not vanished during the entire opposing turn. I don’t think that is the intention.

PS: since English is not my native language, I created this text using the google translator and some editing. I hope everything is understandable and if not, please make a note.

Update, also in canny:

Today i tested many with vanish an I have to correct myself. @Voland, your assume that it works like pain chameleon is very close.

What I have found about vanish:

  • When a squaddie is vanished then he will NOT revealed by close enemy units, in fact you can move to a tile right next to an enemy without getting revealed (no auto reveal like pain chameleon).

  • Only shooting a loud weapon (at the moment all firearms) will reveal him if he not have the Echo Head.

  • Melee attacks doesn’t reveal him.

And for this i for sure accept, that vanish is only active in the players turn and stops at the start of the enemies turn.

Vanish is almost the same as it was before Leviathan with the exception of loosing stealth when you use non silent weapons and don’t have the Echo Head. Very strong …

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Thanks for the info, I hadn’t had a chance to try it out for myself.

Very interesting, this basically enables a ninja strike. That’s why the synedrion torso bionic gives a bonus to stealth and reduces the melee attack to 1 AP. I wondered what was the point if the enemies now detected you within five tiles anyway…

I have exactly the same issue. My lvl7 Infi with this ability and firebird in stealth does regular damage instead of doubled :frowning: I’ve reported it with F12 also.