I am reasonably certain Stealth is not working right, or at all

I don’t know how else to put it. I’m using the latest version of the game on Steam, the Year One edition of course. Now, my ability to test is limited by several factors. For example, without a detailed explanation of the mechanics, it’s hard to know for sure what’s happening. I’ve read the guides and the explanations that exist, and yet my experience in testing with it doesn’t line up with a lot of those things. For example, are there hidden mechanics kicking in when I enter a mission with only one Infiltrator (since that is how I was testing), or is stealth simply not working as intended? I even tried a run or two with other soldiers present, but I didn’t see a change in the behaviors I’m describing below.

Scenario is this: an exploration site resulting in a “recover the vehicle” mission. I start the mission with one Infiltrator in full Styx armor. Stealth is at 75%. If I am to understand it correctly, this should mean that unless something is within 25% of its perception range, they can’t hear me, see me, anything. So, if something with 20 perception is nearby, it has to get within 5 tiles of my Infiltrator to see her. I also understand that in a recent patch, it seems a minimum 5 tile buffer was added. That is to say that regardless of stealth and perception match ups, if someone comes within 5 tiles of the Infiltrator, they see them no matter what.

Either way, I start the mission, and nothing is on screen the first time. For the sake of my testing, I restarted this mission several times, so as to try and keep as much consistency as I could. Occasionally a restart would result in a sentinel being on screen at the start, but typically a good 15 or more squares away from my Infiltrator. Also, the sentinel having a perception of 5 (according to the info as reported by the game) tells me I should be at no risk of being spotted by it, unless its mist gets to me.

Except, in the case of the sentinel (and others), thats not how it works at all. As long as my Infiltrator stands there, and does not move or take action, she appears to remain hidden. But the second she moves even one square, the sentinel is immediately alerted. With a perception of 5, and with a stealth of 75%, with a good 15 tiles between us, how is that possible? Is the alert because some OTHER Pandoran heard me move? They’re so far away as to not even be on screen, when I’m centered on the Infiltrator, so that shouldn’t be it. The sentinel should not be able to see me, or even hear me at that distance, with a perception of only 5.

Maybe hearing is a totally separate thing, from raw perception? If so, what are the numbers for it? Or are there special mechanics at work as regards the sentinels themselves? Let’s say there are special mechanics for the sentinels, I should therefore not see this behavior when there was no sentinel visible at all, but that didn’t seem to be the case.

I should note that the UI continues to report to me the whole time that my Infiltrator is concealed (showing the eye with the slash through it). In fact, be aware that ALL of the scenarios I am describing take place while the UI reports my Infiltrator as being under concealment.

So, as already mentioned, even when the sentinel is not present the experience is just about the same. Move even a square, and watch the Pandorans come running. Don’t move at all, and no one approaches you directly, except by accident, as best as I can tell.

Also, there’s yet more problems with stealth, and not moving around, as related to “silenced” weapons. After testing various methods, all of which failed to keep the Infiltrator undetected despite never coming even within 15 tiles of Pandorans (but still concealed according to the UI), I decided to reload to before the mission, and outfit the Infiltrator with a Synedrion head augment, providing the ability Silent Echo. Turns out, it doesn’t seem to matter. I even tried changing the weapons I was carrying and/or using, but nothing changed the results, be it crossbow, Hel II cannon, etc.

When standing still, never moving, and waiting on enemies to move into range, and then firing at them, you are still homed right in on. Since Silent Echo is supposed to silence any weapon entirely, and because I haven’t taken a single step, techincally this shouldnt bring them right to me. Now, it’s not really a viable play style, but it IS an interesting test. Why am I attracting Pandorans, depsite being concealed, having not moved, and only fired a weapon that is SUPPOSED to be totally silent, thanks to Silent Echo.

Is that because there’s multiple methods of perception? Light, sound, smell, etc? I’m assuming, considering that the game makes no detailed mention of multiple methods of perception, that this is not the case. And if that’s correct, then all I can say is stealth simply does not work as implied via the game, or is broken mechanically altogether.

Unfortunately, for a non-programmer like myself, my ability to test anything other than the in-game effects is somewhat limited. But I swear, stealth is either broken, or does not work at all the way that people seem to think it does. Whenever you pay close attention to enemy AI behavior with an Infiltrator present, things simply do not make sense. Even when a couple other soldiers came along, as I already mentioned, I witnessed Pandorans going after my Infiltrator, while she was concealed, many a time.

  • Boost stealth to max, use infiltrator specialized armor
  • There are skills at end of infiltrator skill line that boost it further. It would be great if it would be dual classed soldier that had also some bonus stealth skills generated by random
  • Even then keep some distance from enemies. Multiclassed infiltrators are best since they can be snipers for example
  • You will see an eye and some green myst around unit as its invisible
  • Using silenced weapons help in not revealing shooting position, but you can ignore that if you shoot and then change position, so shoot once and move, dont stay in position

Using these kinds of advices stealth works, but its not invisibility.

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you bring up a good number of points, (especially about the mist sentinels, they will fire off regardless…even if they are on the other side of the map, even though they originally did not)

I will test a bit of it myself as well, even though I’m not a avid infiltrator user. or expert on these specific mechanics.

about your general gist on how stealth should work I think you are correct, it is perception reduced by the % of concealment you have up to a minimum of 5 tiles where auto detection should take place. and there is a second, not mentioned in the stats hearing that will allow panda’s to close on targets they cannot see. but the hearing radius should be very small (10 tiles or so for footsteps, blooms more if loud weapons are used, but it should not attract enemies from 15+ tiles away when using silent echo and it should not drop your infiltrators stealth).

you didn’t run into any auto-detect things in the tekst that I read (walked through mist zones, or closed into the 10 tile auto detect range of any sentinel) and if you did the detection indicator from the infiltrator should have dropped, and you stated it did not.


I played a lot with Infiltrators but my main experience is from before the Arkham patch (2 versions before the actual Polaris v1.9).

Some essential things first:
Perception and hearing are two different things, as @conductiv already wrote. Additionially, ‘silent’ weapon seems not be really silent, the enemies can still hear you somehow. I never got it how it worked exactly when it comes to hearing, but I can play around this as long as my Infiltrator is not revealed (Vanish for the rescue and win).
I’m pretty sure that some enemies have higher hearing ranges, especially Sentinels of all kind. I had some bad experiences with Terror Sentinels and Infiltrators. I assume they can hear something around 15 tiles, maybe even more.

Now in detail to ‘silent’ weapons and the Echo Head augmentation:
It is all about being revealed or not when using a weapon. On release there was no functionality to reveal an Infiltrator when he shoot a weapon, regardless if it was silent or not. With the, I think, Leviathan patch they introduce this functionality and since then only Crossbows were really silent and any other weapon usage revealed the Infiltrator as long as there was an enemy in line of sight (and AFAIK also in range of his perception). Additionally they introduce the Echo Head augmentation which provides Silent Echo to make any weapon usage ‘silent’. But after two or three patches they took it back and suddenly you could shoot again with any weapon without being revealed, so also the functionality of the Echo Head was no longer given (except Night Vision). I’m not entirely sure why they do that, but probably because the Echo Head is only accessible with the first DLC, its somewhat unbalanced, unfair compared to no DLC.

I don’t know exactly how it is now with Polaris because I got Infiltrator right now, but after some first few fights it seems to me that there is still no difference between silent or non silent weapons and what you wrote confirms that.


Thank you for this, it’s really interesting.

You have probably read this http://wiki.phoenixpoint.com/Combat#Detection

Tbh, I was not happy with this chapter prior to reading your post and I’m less happy with it now :slightly_smiling_face:

Long, long time ago @pantolomin had a look at the code and shared some info on how detection worked:

Huge bug in how "hearing" is handled,

but my guess is that it has changed several times since then.

Rereading it now I see that regular hearing range is 5 tiles.