Devs should watch this

They could do that by other means:

  • lighter armor
  • more points in speed
  • lighter weapons
  • extra speed points for being only 75% encumbered

This way it’s not limited to a single class or ability. You could have a “ranger” with an MG. Balancing this would be tough but it’s more of an example that you don’t have to have abilities to distinguish roles of the soldiers.

Well, yes… I alredy invest in speed quite a lot for my Assaults, and use Anu “speed pants” almost exclusively))
But I like to have Dash as an extra tactical option :wink:

It’s no way the same complexity than before, the new base usage, is dash shoot retreat dash. The only little variation could be with sniper, dash shoot and overwatch or shoot twice with a huge WP usage. There’s also the obvious but WP hungry to dash and shoot 3 times with Adrenalin Rush, and that’s it, because AR won’t allow use any other skill so variations are small, 3 actions move or shoot.

Otherwise it become a rigid skill quite less interesting and quite more straight forward, it’s just dumbing down.

Then ok variations with Rally, well I hadn’t Rally yet, two soldiers for an action, at best a second shoot, mmm I have serious doubts on frequent use case.

I could be wrong and not see some astute use cases, but I only see simplification, and less good gameplay,.

The worse is nobody have been able to explain what problem dev believe have fix.

Your reasoning is plain wrong, that’s weird, it’s not Dash but Rapid Clearance the problem, put it in XCOM, and you get something OP with Rapid Fire, Rapid Clearance.

Put old Dash in XCOM, you go nowhere special.

Well, we were speaking about dash. If you get me started on rapid clearance or adrenaline rush, it’s an other level.
Giving AP back (time travel), come on.
I can understand adrenaline rush to make melee weapons worth it. Making it usable for everything including grenade launcher ??!?
Boom blast + adrenaline rush gives you unlimited grenades ? 1AP for ARush - 1AP for BBlast

Don’t forget about Rapid Clearance and Mind Crush. A single Mind Crush can not only get multiple kills to refill your willpower, but also completely fill up your action points. (provided enemies are near death already of course)

its not time travel per say… AP are not Time units… they are action units… so technically due to adrenaline you are able to perform faster… similarly with rapid clearance, its supposed to represent shooting in quick succession.

Anyway, i think best way how to deal with Dash would be making it require 0AP but with only single activation per turn… that would eliminate moving across the map in single turn, and killing everything you meet (with combination with other abilities, 1AP penalty for Dash is not a big deal, as you can have quick aim+rapid clearance, which will allow you shooting and moving killing everything in your path as before)

What I realized by progressing in new campaign, it’s once I got Rally it replaced old Dash flexibility.

And you know what? I admit it’s more complex than was Dash, and I was too lazy to bother much, but now it looks fun, sigh.

EDIT: I’ll confirm with more experience, but I’m close to be sure that I find everything more coherent and more interesting now, sigh. Don’t let me design games. :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s kind of action units but not really. If, in any way using Adrenaline helps you to use more Adrenaline on the same turn then we are getting into a loop. Which goes as far as many suitable applications of the ability chain is there. Similar thing with Rapid Clearance, if its kind of like shooting in quick succession then that’s what this ability should do - you can do extra shot for the cost of some WP, instead of getting rewarded for killing an enemy and making it possible to do extra shot again and again.

Cool downs are an easy solution but all what they do is make you wait. They bring issues of their own. Like you team uses abilities on this turn and then everyone is idle and waiting for recharge for two turns. If cool-downs are long then it becomes like a single super powerful grenade - “when do I use it? Do I want to wait for better opportunity?” If cool-downs are short then the same chain can be repeated again and again, every turn instead of many time in the same turn. Which solves some issues but in grand schema of things just stretches the same gameplay over multiple turns.

Being rewarded with WP for killing enemies is part of the issue, imho this should be gone completely. You are already rewarded for killing enemy by lowering danger to your troops. Then you will have a limited pool of WP, that can be recovered only by spending AP and you could never use more than you have. So you can still have your interesting chains of abilities but your soldier’s WP should be shaped for it, in expense to other stats.

The loop hardly come from that, and it’s an awful idea to have only skip one turn to restore half will.

Sure too long loops need be stopped, and WP management perhaps need some tuning, but never ever remove a part of its depth.

Cooldowns on Dash wont just make you wait… you wont be able to move across the map in single turn, which means you would have let AI to move… its no fun wiping out Aliens in first turn, just because your men have Dash and can get across the map, then activate multiple abilities and start killing them which replenishes will so you can continue killing… WHILE AI SITS AND DOES NOTHING… With cooldown you move, do whatever you can, then AI moves…

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You don’t do that because of old Dash, never ever. At reverse you can still do it with new Dash, Adrenalin Rush and Rapid Clearance. It’s a little more challenging to start the loop but pretty doable. The loop problem isn’t Dash.

And in my opinion the Dash change is also a lot a global design tuning coherent with Priest change, it’s to put more highlight on Rally which is a bit more complex than Dash with a team turn approach. You want more flexibility, Rally, not Dash.

i think its a bit more complex than that… For example, if gaining XP was not so easy through Training centers, you would not have so many level 7 soldiers with those abilities, which would mean you would be not able to chain those abilities so often. Anyway putting Dash on cooldown would just prevent cheesing the battle space… Maps feel quite small if you can move across the map in single turn…

Agree with that, but if cooldown is a limiting factor then you can still apply the same strategy just over longer amount of turns. If you heavily limit the amount of WP each soldier can have/use per mission (by not able to recover it from kills) then you have a harder choice to make.

  • Do you use your abilities right now at the start to kill some key enemies, then go into defensive so some of your guys can recharge?
  • Maybe you play it out first for few turns and only then use abilities?
  • Maybe wait till the end of the mission and use them on boss? This kind of thing.
    This can span over much larger time period. Perhaps you might even split some mission into phases when you switch to different weapons or change the roles of the soldiers.

i agree, kills should not give you more Will points. Only way how to replenish them should be through skipping turn to recover, and even then, i think it would be best if you did not recover full amount in single turn.

Basic design, dumbing down, it’s nothing else. Tune ok, dumbing down not ok.

its not dumbing down… its making it scarce so you cannot abuse the mechanics in the first place. Besides, there are other ways how to get Will restored… via chests or capture areas… at least they would be more relevant…

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Damn, I don’t know what’s worse - Making the video to discuss this in the first instance, or that people would spend 37 mins of their lives watching it :wink:

Both cases are not promising. :smiley: I have listened to first point of his analysis and then get the “WTF I’m watching?” effect. :slight_smile:

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