Cover mostly useless when fighting enemies with RF ability

I agree. I thought you wanted mil sim tactics to deal with RF because you said this:

I mean, it seems to me that what you are saying is that there is no “tactics” to deal with RF, when there are plenty of them, just that they are not mil sim tactics.

Totally agree with you - The whole thing is bizarre.

That and the fact that, since the game got patched, all your mates will now watch that guy shooting you and not react in anyway, whilst the numpty who just sat there any watched an enemy run up to him and shoot half his leg off will now suddenly decide to retaliate and do so with unaffected accuracy.

It’s as if all the bullets are made out of adrenaline.

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Body part targeting has nothing to do with military sim, or setting OW to cover a specific area.

No offense, but that only means you haven’t played anything approaching a milsim.

There is really nothing about PP that is remotely milsim, which is precisely what many players are complaining about. The weapons are not remotely realistic, nor is the movement, nor are the skills, nor are the tactics. It has ballistics, but even the ballistics in PP have nothing remotely realistic about them.

Look, I’m not saying that RF shouldn’t be improved, or as has been suggested merged with OW, as an enhanced version, just that it has a purpose and it fits with the other game mechanics.

Yeah, I also think it should be the other way around.

Yeah, give an Anvil armor to your assault, +20 by technician, and jetpack in the middle of the enemies.
Unfortunately, I think the AI won’t even try to shoot.

Errr. What I complain about is that you can ie. flank a guy that’s on OW, but you can’t flank a guy that has Return Fire. Skill doesn’t care where you are and what you do as long as you’re in range. Behind him, above, underneath, in his backpack, riding him like a horse. Doesn’t matter. Shots fired? Retaliate!

I don’t care about realism, but that just don’t make any sense and doesn’t fit the game at all.

Take Machinegun + Shield Crabman for example. His shield deploy is positional, it has to face one of four directions and protects from shots from that direction. There are ways to overcome this. You can destroy the shield, you can disable hand that wields the shield. You can flank him and get behind. You can ignore the shield and shot the leg. Yet his facing direction is fixed. He doesn’t turn around when I move, he doesn’t do anything to protect himself. Why the hell, if this skill is positional and have to face one specified direction, does this crabby turn around to Return Fire at me? Is he still reacting to “you expose yourself”?

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I have been experimenting with casting double electric shield by the technician, and it’s true, the enemies won’t even shoot at you. However, apparently they will spit - because the poison goes through the armor.

Do you mean all games must do the same things? And I don’t see the link with possibilities to manage RF that you seem totally ignore.

Spit poison needs does some damages to apply the full effect, I know because with one crab controlled, zero damages, zero poison.

Some obstacles blocking los of enemy to soldier, will disable RF. You can exploit it.

Perhaps the angle could mitigate the damages, more logical would be to mitigate the precision of RF but it’s more RNG effect. But the game would need be more clear on angles, what’s front, back and sides.

It’s not that you can flank the guy on OW, it’s that as long as you don’t step on the OW area, it won’t trigger. I know it seems a bit silly to make this distinction, but it’s important because the area covered by the OW and the direction where the soldier or critter is facing is not the same thing. In PP perception is always 360°, there is no such thing as direction facing, so there is no such thing as flanking…

Of course, in the case of the crab with the deployed shield it does seem very odd and counterintuitive.

Yes but this is a hole in the design, overall it works anyway, but parts and aiming is fully about facing, and yes there isn’t really facing in PP.

But there’s already a skill nobody use and based on facing, Surprise Attack. Despite facing isn’t fully implemented, RF could exploit some facing aspects.

I’d say that it’s how it should be look at, not just remove RF, but eventually add more tools to manage it, even if there’s a long list available already, it’s true that most are based on skills but not all.

Really ? I thought that it had to be greater than armor to go through. Spitter head MK2 applies 80 poison, so Anvil-2 with 2 technicians is still not enough to protect against it (for torso it’s just enough, but neither head nor legs).
Either you don’t get poisoned (stopped by armor) or you get all the poison (not diminished by armor).

However it’s 15 damage, 30 piercing, so I don’t think it can go through Anvil-2 with 1 technician buffing the armor.

Sure that poison is applied only if one damage is done, and then all poison is applied.

Maybe you could check the mod I made for return fire.
You can set the angle in which it triggers, the perception ratio for triggering, whether target and/or casualties and/or others react and the number of RF they can do.

Yes, I went to check the code and saw that damage had to be applied for poison to be applied. So I went to check my spreadsheet to see that there is not only poison but also damage and piercing.

So against MK1 spitter head Anvil-2 is safe, against MK2 you need a techy.

Shielded crabmen has 360 awareness, but saying there’s no flanking isn’t true. Getting the angle where his shield isn’t facing front to you is still flanking, regardless of him knowing your position or not. Enemy can OW from behind high cover and getting a better sideway angle where he’s exposed is also basically flanking. Probably military terminology is more restrictive, but that’s how it works in games for years. And considering there’s no “flanking bonus” and thats not what I am asking for, it doesn’t actually matter if enemy is, or isn’t, aware.

I don’t want to remove RF but to make it active with a cost. Or idealy, merge it with OW. Or replace with something else, like ie. “Cover Me!” skill that would end up your soldier (or enemy) turn and he would hunker down but every shot fired at him would trigger RF of every other, non-hunkered down, enemy within LoS.

My guy was wearing light Anu armor, mutated speed legs and the synedrion helmet, and the technician cast electric shield twice. It happened to me only once (that’s why I said apparently).

2 technicians bring 40 armor (Never did it myself but read that it stacks) and you need 45 on all body parts to be immune to poison spit. So I don’t see how it could pass.
Twice with the same technician ?

There are RNG aspect coming from aiming, they aim a part allowing got through and poison and sometimes give up because the chance is too low, or sometimes try but RNG make them hit a part with too high armor.