An idea to change Boom Blast

Gears Tactics broke Tactics on Hard. Are you sure you want to see the result in this game?

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The current tactic of the Community and Devs to change the game by “biting off the edges” will only result in the fact that “Done” will be for the release of XCOM3.

What do you mean?
In Gears Tactics chain kills are absolutely by design. Small team, many opponents, fast pace.
Gears Tactics is for FPS players who want to try something different.
Definitely not my game.

In short, then
I would consider Snapshot studio great if they can make a soft and gentle entry into the Beginner and the skeleton of balance for the Hero. A good balance of Legends without Modders is Unrealistic. (Half the game needs to be redone)

Would you object if the skill was changed to a single salvo of 3 grenades (so you can attack one target/area, instead of 3), but the bonus of 50% to range was kept?

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+1
This makes the skill even more powerfull (if everything hits) and at the same time not as trivial (killing from starting position)

You are my spirit animal.

I am kinda terrified the min/max players are going to influence the removal of options like this, because it is not viable to their play-styles.

Woe.

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What is with the back mounted rocket launcher and normal grenades?
The back mounted Rocket Launchers have only 2 rockets and normal grenades are … simply single use.
Archangel fires 3 rockets on the same point?

What I will say is that there is more in the game then the Goliath grenade launcher :wink:

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Aside from wobbly interaction with the back-mounted launcher (which probably would just fire the two rockets) that’d be definitely what i’d go for.

Yes, that is true :slightly_smiling_face:

TBH I’m just wondering what other players think about this skill, what do they want out of it, and from explosives in the game in general.

I’ll be honest, the thing I want the most about explosives is to Do Everything.
Or, more like, that there’s explosives for doing all sorts of things. I love that there’s grenades for poison, shred, acid, stun. They’re great! They’re varied!
But you can’t make a grenadier that specializes in using support grenades, because there’s only the Goliath with it’s base effect (which I mean, it’s a great effect).

In a more detailed view, explosives in general should make targets easier to kill, to wipe out weakened enemies. And then there’s either an ability or a particular piece of gear (like the Thor) that’s just like “That enemy is a problem, solve it” that’s easy to use, but limited in quantity. Simply because “Very large boom feels good”

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What @Julian wrote above, that’s also my opinion :wink:

From the Boom Blast skill I want that it does something advanced with the explosives, any kind of them. Actually I like how it is, Boom Blast is good at the beginning to jump in and if something bad happened I can at least throw one grenade (pretty expensive for 5 WP, but I’ve done this sometimes). It is very good with the grenade launcher, sometimes too good, but also not in every situation. Pretty often I have a problem to get my heavies in to the fight because the enemies hiding in buildings where I can’t jump in and/or use grenades entirely. Boom Blast compensates this in other more open scenarios with more range and maybe one additional grenade from the launcher if I don’t have to move.

For me Boom Blast doesn’t feel overpowered because of the limited possibilities explosives have in the game.

Finally, 3 grenades in one volley with more range but also more scatter sounds OK for me, but only for the Goliath launcher it makes sense. There is no usage for normal grenades, the back mounted launchers only have 2 rockets and if I build a Heavy arround the Archangel launcher (I have done this and it isn’t that bad for me) this would maybe a bit strange.

I do too, and you didn’t mention my favorite one - fire :slightly_smiling_face:

What I’m not so crazy about is that between Quarterback, Ready for Action and Boom Blast I can launch 4 grenades with a single soldier at 24-32 tiles (depending on grenade).

Now, imo that is clearly too much (and more with the previous Reckless bonus of 30%, still very good with the current 20%), but what am I supposed to do if I like grenades? Must I say OK, don’t pick the Quarterback skill? Don’t cast Boom Blast? Don’t throw more than 3 grenades?

I want the game to be balanced, not have to balance it myself when I play. And, to be fair, I’m an enthusiast of Phoenix Point, I love the game, I know my way around it, and I’m willing to play with self-restrictions until the game is properly balanced.

A new but experienced player of TBS will scoff at this. If I was considering buying the game on Steam and I read reviews that said the game is awesome, but you have to come up with self-restrictions, I would never buy it.

So btw, no @Daigoji_Gai, this is not about min/maxing or my personal play style, it’s about I want the game to be successful, so that it continues to be supported and have sufficient player base of serious players to warrant mods.

Only Thor isn’t really this limited. It’s 2 rockets and you can easily carry 2 more. You can do this feel-good large boom every turn. And without any opportunity cost: you can have your Thor, your GL and your Deceptor/Hel 2 Cannon.

If Thor was a single shot per mission affair, I think it would be perfect, or if it was single shot and reloading required 3 APs.

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In my experience, Boom Blast is not always, but almost always, a no-brainer.

Turn 1: (except Nest-Mission)

  • Action 0: There is no waiting until the opponents have positioned themselves. I attack them with Boom Blast directly at their initialized starting position!
  • Action 1: Two fast scouts run in two different directions. In most cases, you can detect at least 2 opponents (close to each other) + a single one. In very rare cases, no victims are caught or vice versa: there are 5-6 next to each other = jackpot!
  • Action 2: A single heavy cast boom blast. I have 2 grenade launcher bombs + 1 mounted weapon. The enemies under (Action 1) are done. Usually they are dead or crippled, so dead man walking. If I missed myself (very rarely) or a whole bunch of opponents was found there, “Onslaught” (nice skill) is cast 1-2 times = +1-2 bombs. Finished.

The Heavy will not move away from the initialized position (Stationary Missile Base), not in turn 1 and probably not in the next turn, since they are now running in my direction (even more open) and a) are too far away and b) maybe have no LOS .

On the whole: about 70-80% of the battles can be decided in this way. And that’s only with one heavy!

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Yeah, tbh I don’t feel that good about this use of Boom Blast either. Last night I was playing a story mission on a Synedrion map, and I basically carelessly rushed ahead. But nothing bad happened. Why? Because I had a single Heavy positioned on top of a building. Cast Boom Blast, use the GL and voila, crisis over.

And what @walan says is pretty accurate, IME. I would add that there is actually no need to do it on the first turn. You can let the enemies rush you, which makes the whole thing even easier.

Most will not see self-restrictions as a game feature. :upside_down_face:

Yes. Boom Blast is OP because it currently allows you to fire multiple grenades/rockets in 1 turn, so you can carpet-bomb an area with 1 single squaddie. Allowing that salvo to continue - even against a single area - will not fi its problems.

Its utility to the likes of me & MC is, I believe, more the fact that it enables us to reach that pesky Chiron (or whatever) on the other side of the map with an indirect fire weapon (albeit imho a weak one I’m not impressed by GL damage).

So I would much prefer we kept the range and nerfed the salvo effect. That retains its utility without making it an OP 1-shot Crabbie destroyer,

You are not impressed with its damage because if you are using it to shoot single nades across the map at large enemies like Chirons you have found the one underwhelming way of using the GL :wink:

Explosives are limb destroyers - a lot of damage to HPs from explosives comes from penalties to max health and bleeding. Large enemies with a lot of HPs in their limbs are much less vulnerable to that, and typically require 2-3 grenades (EDIT: to have a significant impact: disable some body parts, shred the armor; it’s not enough to kill them) , which is why I proposed a salvo, because @mcarver2000 implied that he needed it precisely against Chirons (whether goo, worm, explosive - he can’t bear them living for one turn… Heavens forbid they get to do something before they expire :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:).

Fair nough, but that still doesn’t invalidate my central point that trying to balance OP grenade salvos by allowing players to lob 3 grenades/turn instead of 2 seems like an odd way of going about it.

And in my experience, my Bombardier is not allowed to fire more than 1 Fury Missile/turn.

The GL is OP when used against groups of Arthrons and Tritons, because a single nade can disable multiple limbs. So the problem is if you can shoot 3 long range explosives at 3 different places you can disable 3 groups of enemies. And with 2 Heavies - 6. For the second heavy you usually don’t even have enough enemies left to attack…

EDIT: so the point of a single salvo is you can attack one group of enemies, rather than 3.

Yes, that is correct - that’s why I say you get 3 shot a turn, 2 from GL and one from mounted launcher.

What I was suggesting re mounted launchers is that they have ammo capacity of 1, and can only be used once per mission, or had ammo capacity of 1 and require 3 APs to reload.

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Which is why I advocate that Boom Blast only gives you the range bonus (+ maybe 25% damage) but not the 1AP discount.

Reducing the ammo from the launcher and making it expensive to reload is a good (though probably unpopular :face_with_raised_eyebrow:) idea. Not had much experience with NJ weapons, but if they’re anything like the Manticore’s rockets, one per turn is enough.

Thing is, a 3 grenade salvo is too much; but a 1 grenade salvo is too little (and for the record, since Boom Blast gives you 2 shots with the GL/turn, I know what a double-salvo on a bunch of Crabbies can do).

However, my central point remains that for some of us the main attraction of Boom Blast is its extended range.