Mmm panick last only one turn, warcry still allow a melee attack, a Siren paralyzed with 16?
It was with release version of the game?
Ha well ok didn’t tried with warcry and a fast soldier, no need of Berzerk. I still see it a lot longer, and quite tough to do in middle of a hot combat. But ok I realize now I should have try warcry.
Nop, two days ago. Panick makes her run away to recover. With warcry she can’t run far. So it was like 3 hits on the turn I panicked her and war cried, and another 3 hits on the next turn.
There’s one skill with the cap, the idea is cooldown are a much more efficient tool for tactical tuning during design and tuning. It’s not a real cooldown, it’s a number of use limit per turn, but next turn it’s ready.
The problem is it won’t be a small change and will require have clear indication or number of use per turn and number left.
I think it’s a good track to explore but yeah not just 1 max, could be 2 max, 4 max…
That’s where I started from when I opened this thread, but the more we’ve talked it over, the more I realise that an open Skills Sandbox will only not overbalance the game if there is some universal limit set on all skill uses. Otherwise, there will always be a loophole that someone will exploit.
TBH, they’ll find a loophole anyway - I kind a love that someone figured out if you have a Heavy with Dash & a Jetpack and 5 other guys all with Rally, you can get him all the way across the board to take out the Lair Spawnery in 1 turn. But it also proves my point - if it’s exploitable, someone will find a way to exploit it.
Ok it’s recent. 
It’s not infinite, this trick has no WP restore, each 1 AP will cost 4WP, a jump requires 3AP, I don’t see why Dash, Rally restores only AP not WP.
Still with a full team with Rally, it should gives a large pool of AP to move/use Jetpack and kill, hardly for searching and kill, but it seems there’s a trick to know where the target is. At end of the turn the team will be WP exhausted, but if the kill is done it’s non relevant.
EDIT:
Team of 8, 12WP each, 21 added AP with 7 soldiers, 2 Rage Burst to kill(?), this let 15AP, 5 Jetpack, go straight and kill, not search and kill.
EDIT:
In Theory I have the soldiers but Assault are spread into 6 teams currently.
Simply because there was a bunch of other exploits so no-one cared even if it was discovered or reported. I’m pretty sure it was mentioned few times
An interesting example. This only works either with save scumming or another exploit currently available - you can tell where the spawnery is because you can’t move on it (so you check with the cursor into which hole you can’t move and presto!)
You make my point for me, Zzzz. It’s a cheese: no more, no less.
But it’s a cheese that turns what is arguably the most difficult mission in the game into a laughable 1-turn snoozefest, and that’s caused by an unforseen combo of several stacked skills.
Stop the ability to multi-stack skills, and a lot (but not all) of the cheeses will go away.
Of course, the other way to deal with it is to properly evolve the Pandorans so that they create defences against that overused tactic - 'Fragger mines at Jet-Pack jump intervals en route to the Spawnery, overwatch screens, etc…
But I suspect that would be too hard to implement.
Pretty sure it wasn’t.
Worth noting, I think, that there are two separate issues here, though they’re closely related:
Is that there are some skill combinations that are pretty clearly broken and overpowered: if stuff like the Rageburst Sniper is intended, the devs of PP have some utterly weird ideas about game balance. It really doesn’t feel like the ‘intended use’ to me, since it’s super gamey and exploitable. Now, things like this existing in the game aren’t necessarily a huge problem to me- if you really don’t like them, just be honest and don’t use it. As someone’s said, you’ll have a hard time building something like the game’s skill system without there being massive exploits somewhere.
The fact that some of the broken combinations are nearly the only effective way to play. This is where I personally have an issue. Yes, I can play an honest playthrough of the game without using them, but once the larger groups of enemies and stuff like Sirens show up, doing so is basically playing the game on extra-hard mode, because the exploits are the only really effective tools you get.
Basically, the problem isn’t just that there are exploitable skill combinations, it’s that those combinations quickly become something close to necessary to deal with the massive waves of heavily-armoured, massively damaging enemies. Normally in a game like this, you’d have other ways of coping- so yes, you failed to kill a few enemies with grenade launchers, but your new armour is good enough to avoid having that automatically cripple an arm and take a soldier out of the fight. The thing is, you just don’t get any better armour, so you’re forced into ‘alpha strike’ tactics with the crazy skills if you want to actually play effectively.
I just got bored of having rage burst on every single soldier class i have aside from infiltrators… Who are op nomatter what you do with em.
And even if i somehow couldnt use rage burst after a few times… By then the enemies are completely crushed and im bound to win.
Turn 1 is when all the damage is done. The only way to fix turn 1 is to tone down the amount of damage potential. Not cooldown or wp related things.
Mmm but you feel forced to that, I didn’t bother play high difficulties so I don’t know for that aspect.
You can’t rage burst everything you met. At least I don’t see the utility to have a whole team with it.
For full sniper teams, I don’t know, I find that less efficient but I can’t say I master the game.
Ok your point of view, myself I played some games with many combats that are two turns, some one turns, it’s puzzle and very interesting because it’s no automatic play anyway.
But again ok perhaps, but then I don’t understand the Citadels layout design, such layout if a call to two turns combats.
My point exactly. As I keep saying, you can’t stop 1 without stopping 2. So you have to rebalance the Nasties so that they are dealable with tactical play rather than magic. Because, ultimately, magic gets boring.
100% Infiltrators are easy to nerf - simply halve every single stealth benefit in the game. Voila, no more 100% Stealth.
Yes, but IMO it’s basically RB and stealth that have crossed the line into exploits. Some other stuff is borderline (e.g. quick aim + cannon, armor break + laser AR)
This has not been my experience. I’m playing on normal, “(mostly) honest man” and I don’t use RB or stealth (as an exploit). I have taken on lairs, citadels, a haven attack with a Scylla, and a special mission for New Jericho where I came across 5 or 6 sirens and a few crabmen. I came out of this last battle without a scratch, though one of my guys did get mind controlled.
I can second that. I coined the phrase HonestMan, and I refuse to use anything I consider to be a broken combo.
I avoid Lairs like the plague - mainly because Citadels are so much easier - but I have yet to find a single mission type that cannot be beaten by a clever use of mundane tactics.
Yes, you do have to bug out occasionally - especially if your Lvl 4/5 Squad finds itself head-to-head with a Scylla + backup - but I’ve even won a Haven Defence against that with a Lvl 3/5 Squad before now (albeit with 50% casualties).
Sirens was designed to look and sound and feel very scary, the more you play them, the more it’s not a target for which you’ll lost a rage burst. The game could abuse of mind control but it’s not so much awful than it looks if a soldier or two get controlled.
For Scylla, I rage stopped play my first campaign attempt after have met one in first month in a Haven defense. I don’t master the topic yet, but it depends a lot of the context, most often ignore them to clean somehow the area first is working, don’t attack them, let them capture civilians, or busy destroy some building, for civilians it’s even an easy way to ensure have them alive at end of mission, not always but often. For more standard missions, they aren’t on start seeking you, when you detect one it’s still not too late to move back to not be seen yet.
Their acid glue is such a pain but it’s not an outright team kill and from far. I never noticed their close range attack can one hit kill a soldier. When they are close they are soon dead or you met one too soon and not ready. No need panic on mind control beats, pistols and even one hit bash with weapon can deal the thing fine, you still lost a soldier turn, but not even damages.
That said, I never ever killed one without at least one rage burst. Without it it could be more difficult, but no need of sniper even if sometimes it can help.
Yeah, it’s a good one. I usually always play like that, but I started using the term after I saw in a thread here (probably yours).
Anyway, it kinda proves my point - there is a finite (and not very large, probably not even in the double digits) number of potentially exploitive combos that need fixing. Probably an incremental tax on WP use is also in order.
IMO, the way to go about it is on a case by case basis, calling the attention of the developers to each issue and providing some suggestions. They have their own perspective and their own ideas on how to fix things, but they get tunnel vision without the players’ input.