Weapon Design Feedback


#47

Considering this is set 27 years in the future weapon design seems to bace stagnated in the late 1990’s. Where is the weaon intergration into smart systems that we are even now working on? Perhaps as the armour advances in game the game mechcanics should be able to show far more ballistic date and share it with all squad mates. And seriously open trigger guards? There’s a sure way for negilent discharges. And where are under barrel clip on grenade launchers? M203 anyone? Yes it’s a game and we do have to have a suspension of disbelief but the more believable the setting , troops and equipment the more enjoyable it will be for it’s target audience.


#48

It may be worth remembering that in the setting everything has gone to plops which means access to higher-end resources for maintaining the more cutting-edge firearms is severely limited or non-existent.

We may find that initially our guys are stuck with specific types of weapons without our current level of customisation and may need to recover older tech from missions to research/cannibalise in order to retrofit the newer firearms with attachments and/or manufacture “retro” style weapons with the capability to attach under-barrel grenade launchers or shotguns, etc.

Granted, it’s not unreasonable to find 30 year old designs still in use today in some parts of the world but it’s the dev’s world, not ours…yet… :wink:


#49

Haha, look above, @Kings_Rook has complained about those open trigger guards too. I hope the devs take that to heart XD


#50

Well in that case it’s M4 (with rail systems already) and AK’s all round i know it’s a game but a sense of realism is still needed. In XCOM 2 there are several mods that add “historical” fireams to the game. At the moment there (to me it seems) little original thought or design has gone in to weapon systems design. It’s all very generic sci-fi been done before. Get a copy of Janes Small Arms book and just browse through it for some real life designs that you can extrapolate from for the future. A sense of realistic design is needed for any game created world.


#51

XCOM2 weapons were designed by Ben Leary, who apparently specialize in weapon modelling. I’ve posted a link where he talks about his job somewhere in this very thread, but I may as well link it again. I found his comments insightful, especially this bit :

But bear in mind that the artist who designed PP’s weapons may not have had the luxury to work on weapons only. For all we know, they may not have the same level of experience in weapons design or even the bandwidth to really work on the realism of those weapons. They may be working on PP weapons, organic monstrosities for the crabs, fancy high tech synedrion designs and whatnot.


#52

Thank you for your very insightful reply. So many sci fi games seem to use the cookie cutter approach to weapon design. One of the best ideas I heard from a movie armourer was tak e a real weapon and then start bolting/fitting dress up parts to it. The basic function is retained with imagination added to them. Any weapon must be ergonomic for it to be able for use. Through trail and use the form of the gun has been pretty much stable form when the first muzzle loaders were used, stock, firing mechcanism and barrel. Adding bulk to scifi weapons for the sake takes away from the realism. The two must produced modern fireams the M4 and the AK in the basic form are slim rugged, easy to use, well engineered apex small arms. A more modern design that should be looked at by game designers is possible the FN Scar, more rounded and streamlined that possibly shows the progress od small arms design.I am looking forward to the next realease to see how the games weapons look and function😉


#53

To question is - to what extent? Do developers really need to bury themselves in such details? Some 0,0001% of players may appreciate this later. But 99,9…% won’t.


#54

Please show me the source of your figures. In my experience most players of such games appreciate the so called realism of the game. This especially when nearly half the game is a tactical simulation.


#55

Can we talk about realism in turn based game? :slight_smile: I would love to see weapons which look authentic, but if they won’t, it won’t make me sad. :wink: So I’m in the 99,9% (or less) pool. :wink: I just want to frag those damn mutants piece by piece, and if my tools will look little bit strange I won’t have a problem with that.


#56

Every singlebody has the right to their opinions, I will never put anybody down for that😉 There definetly has to be a balance of what looks cool and what looks like it could work though, otherwise it’s the famous .45 cal banana routine😂 Sorry about that, a very old paper and pencil joke from the dawn of rpg games😉


#57

There are no polls on the matter I guess, but, just open Xcom2 Workshop and take a look at cosmetic mods. Most of them are very far from making the game look more realistic -) Again, ~2 mln people bought it. Do you really believe that at least half of them are “weapon experts”? I’m sure the majority will never notice if a weapon is “realistic” or not - unless it is something like X3 apocalypse’ “swine launcher” ))


#58

I’m sure most of them aren’t weapon experts, I’m certainly not, and as for XCOM 2 which I enjoy immensely, a lot of the weopon mods actually add more realistic weapons to the game. This topic was for feedback. I gave some feedback😉 I’m not attacking any bodies views just pointing out some other ideas.

Arrrgh! Edit because of bad two fingered tryping!:man_facepalming:t3:


#59

Just forget about rifles and other firearms: batons are the ultimate weapon

OP, please nerf


#60

How about those metal crackers they use in restaurants for lobsters shells, the crab men will be running away screaming when they see our troops all equipted with them! Napkins can be colour coded to uniforms😂


#61

each soldier for each queen’s leg and she will die in pain


#62

This kind of “testing” actually happened in Riot Games’ studios. When designing the sound effects for Pool Party Leona (summer themed skin where the character trades her sword for a parasol), the team realized they had no sound effects for somebody getting whacked with a parasol, so they brought in a few umbrellas, assuming it would sound similar enough, and what was initially supposed to be a sound capture session quickly turned into full blown umbrella duelling.

Pointless bit of trivia aside and moving back to topic, realism is a funny thing. @stewpidbear wrote that most people appreciate realism, and I agree to some extent, but I’d add that most people who claim to appreciate realism also have no clue regarding what is realistic or not (I count myself in that lot when it comes to firearms, and will gladly read comments from people more knowledgeable than myself).

Having practiced HEMA, I’m more familiar with realistic historical weaponry (and armors to some extent), and when people are served with realistic armors, you get the infamous complaints regarding the Witcher’s 3 Griffin armor making Geralt pot-bellied or a fuckton of misconceptions that come from Hollywood or DnD.

This also produces oddballs like For Honor, where there are some noticeable attempts to mix in accurate historical swordmanship and medieval gear with what can only be described as “fantasy vikings” despite realistic claims, characters straight out of tvtropes.com (looking at you Shinobi) and a new breed of wushu inspired Chinese characters that seem to offer the same blend of bona fide shaolin moves and bullshido grade fancy stuff. Don’t get me wrong, I love For Honor’s gameplay and am still spending a lot of time on it, but I can only laugh when rabid fans place it as a yardstick of realistic medieval combat.


#63

What a fantastic and well thought out post, well done mate👍


#64

Well, bullshido does tend to be much more visually appealing. Batons for crab people though? Nah, just get me a crowbar and the Jaws of life. :slight_smile:


#65

A reasonable amount of bullshido is acceptable, and even necessary, as reaction times with a mouse or an actual sword are very different and, without some kind of “telegraphing” of moves, it would simply be unplayable. As long as you have to factor it in, it may as well look pretty :slight_smile:


#66

That moment when you realize nuXCOM actually outperforms Phoenix Point in something, even it is just one aspect of the art design.