The December Release

[Wormerine]

@Tolma38

I thought to help the developers by buying the version with the early access (even it’s more expensive) and follow the evolution of the game, over the alpha versions, then beta … until its final release in December, as with other games.
But this is apparently not the case.
In fact, I exaggerate a little but I paid 20 € more than the price of the game, just for a nice “demo” version !!!

In spite of the branding, Phoenix Point isn’t an early access game, and was never meant to be: it doesn’t get regular updates, the mechanics included aren’t polished enough in terms of balance nor bugs to make for an engaging loop.

What you get is your backer beta thing, which is done often during crowdfunding campaigns to allow more passionate backers to give feedback, see some of the core mechanics, and most importantly, encourage chipping more money into the project.

PP continued selling this beta after campaign ended, which I understand (both from developers who want to push more pricey copied, and customers who want access to it) but dislike the post-campaign branding. PP isn’t fit to be an EA games - good EA games have very limited gameplay loop which can be expanded with content later on: variety of items, maps, enemies etc. PP has multiple systems and game planes which need to fully exist to properly work together. Those have been in development and were showcased via BB system as Devs wanted to gain feedback on them.

What your $20 covers is “prestige” of being able to play an early build and be able to have first-hand complaigns.

However, what you don’t play is the game as it develops. Those are separate builds made using some of the content they have for showcase purposes. Each backer builds drains resources from actual game, as this separate build needs certain amount of QA to be playable, and things that are fixed in it might not translate into Dec built which has moved forward. so it is understandable if they decided at this point to focus on final release. Even traditional EA games tend to freeze updates months before 1.0 release, and current planned deadline for PP is coming.

[Yokes]

@Wormerine

What your $20 covers is “prestige”

“Who want to touch me?” As Cartman said.

[UnstableVoltage]

There’s also the Alien Living Weapons and Chitin Armor DLC which is included in that extra price.

[Tolma38]

Even if I am a little disappointed, I understand.
I have great confidence in this game. What I have seen is very promising. I hope it will be a great game like UFO: Ennemy unknown was a great game.
I can not wait for December !!!

[samshell]

@Wormerine

What your $20 covers is “prestige” of being able to play an early build

I paid for no prestige, I paid for the chance to get the Backer Builds In fact, if it was a regular campaign, like pay now and play when it’s ready, I wouldn’t have backed it…

[Wormerine]

Usually “pay now an play before it is finished” purchases are sold for lower prices then the finished product. Therefore, you did pay to join the exclusive club.

[Traxxexx]

@Wormerine

PP isn’t fit to be an EA games - good EA games have very limited gameplay loop which can be expanded with content later on

I completely disagree with most of your posts in this thread but I doubt that you’ll change it in any way so I’ll just give you a link to another forum of a very similar game: Xenonauts 2.

I bought the game (06’2017) not because I wanted to play a beta but to support the man that developed one of my favourite games.

Hopefully the release will be smooth but I still doubt it and maybe it is a good thing that the EGS has no forum .

[Wormerine]

Granted all my opinions are based on previews Early Access games I played, and previews Kickstarter projects And backer betas I participated in. I have little idea of how game production process works, though similar applies to mostly everyone else on the forum.

No one needs to change anyone minds. I am not in charge of PP and neither is you. Whatever ideas about PP development we have, and state it is in, is fairly irrelevant outside friendly academic-yet-uneducated discussion.

I didn’t know X2 went for early access. Curious. Though relevant how? That PP should go EA when it releases, instead of going as full release? If 1.0 will have issues that is certainly a more respectful way of doing it then selling a “finished game” while hoping to fix bugs and balance/feature problems afterwards. Or that PP should be in the same state X2 is if it plans to release in December? I don’t think that it’s a case: When devs talk about challenges of EA they describe how reading every update is its own launch including balancing, bug fixing, polishing etc. indicating to me it is not standard or necessary process for games not being released this way.

[Traxxexx]

They way X2 is developed is brilliant in my opinion.
They let backers play the game (and help with bugs & feedback) until it is in a state that a good release on Steam EA is guaranteed. What already has been said: “You never get a second chance to make a first impression”.

You prefer to solely rely on inhouse (beta) testers and I prefer any chance to test a game with as many people as possible.

That is the whole point of this thread and our argument. I would like another BB to fix the majority of game breaking bugs while testing new features and you believe SG can do that on their own.

Let’s just wait until december and you’ll have a chance to find as many bugs as you can.
Granted @Yokes will probably beat you to it .

[SpiteAndMalice]

According to the Fig campaign.

[Wormerine]

@Traxxexx

You prefer to solely rely on inhouse (beta) testers and I prefer any chance to test a game with as many people as possible.

That is the whole point of this thread and our argument. I would like another BB to fix the majority of game breaking bugs while testing new features and you believe SG can do that on their own.

No, no, no. Not at all. Qualified QA will do more then a passionate player, but a thousands of hands on deck will break the game in ways one can’t predict.

But It’s not about what I would like, or prefer, but about what is actually happening.

STATEMENT OF WHAT AM CONVINCED TO BE A FACT:
“Developing a game to be released as early access and developing a game to be released as finished 1.0 release with occasional playable builds are two different development strategies.”

Some people insist of treating PP’s Backer Betas (which is a game which aims for 1.0 release), as if they were EA games (build you play right now, will also be build you will play later, albeit updated one)

The only point I have been trying to make in every single post in this thread is this:
WE CAN"T RELIABLE JUDGE THE STATE OF GAME’S DEVELOPMENT BASED ON BB5 BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE BUILD THAT WILL BE RELEASED.Is the game on track? I don’t know. You don’t know. So take a chill pill and wait for the build which IS representative of the final game

Now, if what everyone on the “opposing” site was suggesting - and I simply boanheadidly missed the point - was that PP should first launch as EA game instead (does Epic has those?!) to avoid negative press and help make the game the best it can be before the wide release:

I apologise, I misinterpreted people’s intentions, and I assumed people called for more BBs within the system and schedule of current PP development.

X2 development sounds very consumer friendly. The more time game spends in the over, the better, and a benefit of mechanic driven game, as opposed to narrative one, is that playing such game pre-maturely isn’t quite a spoiler. I am still quite butt-hurt, that Deadfire launched with issues which where for the most part addressed within a month - but it something that will plague it’s written reviews forever, and as narrative game I don’t think it can release in full as EA.

If Snapshot thinks they can benefit of EA release can afford to do it (deal with Epic would allow, can wait for influx of money be it customers or Epics), I would be all for it, with two points to make:

1. either it’s available for all backers (so I can play what is close to final game)
2. or finally impliment the pledge upgrade so I can upgrade my pledge. Having full game be released, and not being able to play it would frustrate me to no end.

I have also made a joke before, that year of exclusivity under Epic is the year of early access, when the game can be tested, balanced, bug patched and released to a wide public for sale on steam/gog. While Snapshot’s delays gave me a false(?) hope that it won’t be the case, it is something I won’t be shocked if it would happen.

[Wormerine]

Ok! Thanks @SpiteAndMalice.

So it was misnamed from the very beginning and either:

1. My previous experience and my brain told me what to expect [Thanks Logic! You were helpful this time. Also: Disco Elysium reference. Like if you got it. Buy Disco Elysium if you didn’t. It’s bloody brilliant!]
2. Further updates cleared it for me, what the “Early Access” would look like
3. Once the actual BB started to happen my brain has rewritten the reality to fit the new knowledge [thank you… Inland Empire, I suppose?]

That does explain something. I did have it rattling in my brain a long time ago that PP will first launch as Steam’s Early Access game. That was before actual betas were released, so it would add up.

[SpiteAndMalice]

Maybe it’s that change from Steam to Epic that also changed Early Access into just Backer Builds, I don’t know… Does Epic allow for EA? I generally don’t use it as a gaming client.

I don’t mind personally whether it’s in the form of Backer Builds, or EA, but I am like you worried about those 1st month reviews and what they’ll stamp the game as if there’s pressure to release in Dec before the game is in the state it should be.

(This is based on experience of what happened with Chaos Reborn, Snapshot had no choice to release due to need for income, I really like CR as is, but the game could have been a lot stronger IMHO with the opportunity for more time. It lost multiplayer numbers as a result, and then even when feature complete it was too late to regain them. Single player games are different in that regard, but they still receive 1st impressions from both gamers and reviewers alike.)

[Wormerine]

@SpiteAndMalice

Does Epic allow for EA? I generally don’t use it as a gaming client.

Silly me, to answer my ow question: yes they do. Or at least you can release EA games through Epic. I own Hades and Griftlands on it.

[samshell]

@Wormerine

Hades

Hades is a cool one. I struggle at that Minotaur / Theseus boss fight, though, their HP pool is huge. Or i’m just not the greatest player in the world

[Wormerine]

@samshell

@Wormerine

Hades

I struggle at that Minotaur / Theseus boss fight, though, their HP pool is huge. Or i’m just not the greatest player in the world

I have been playing since Day1, and those two are certainly a major difficulty spike. Can’t go past them reliable, though my odds are getting better - I also farmed a lot of improvements by now.

Your chances of success greatly depend on drops you have - though rebalance they did a while back does made more things viable. If you simply don’t do enough damage, there isn’t much you can do. Also Theseus is tough to damage with his shield.

[samshell]

@Wormerine

If you simply don’t do enough damage, there isn’t much you can do

That’s the problem by now, if I get tp that fight without at least 100 hp damage, and 400 critical, and a huge critical chance, I’m gonna get wiped. I hoped the last update fixed that, but no, I still struggle to get them (even if I do get just fine with the other bosses)

[Wormerine]

Yeah. It gets easier once you boost the chances to get higher level blessings in the mirror.

[rasvoja]

At least solo mission (early BB level) for all PURCHASERS of the game, would be kind and expected, if deadline is to be missed again. Or last and fixed BB5+.

I own game on Epic, and deadline has been pushed once for quarter of a year.

[rasvoja]

@SpiteAndMalice

I don’t mind personally whether it’s in the form of Backer Builds, or EA, but I am like you worried about those 1st month reviews and what they’ll stamp the game as if there’s pressure to release in Dec before the game is in the state it should be.

Its no ones pressure, its date team assigned when delayed previous time.

If they cannot deliver final product, give us whatever you can to play with (bugfixed BB5?) until you do the job.

We have pre-paid. Be it early supporters, official website buyers in any form, or like me Epic exclusive buyers (even I do use Steam).

Or better, never open pre order if you expect delays of months.