Phoenix Point in Xbox game pass?

As long as it’s simply “available” and no other strings (which I understand if you can’t talk about them) then it shouldn’t be too bad. The parity issue is largely believed to be what killed mod support for EU/EW (Jake had originally stated their goal for it and then suddenly dropped all talk about it and locked down even the initial minor mods for the game like removing the start up videos), plus there was that one game that AFTER launch had to tone down the PC graphics for parity reasons (luckily a mod restored the old Ultra graphics).

It’s stuff like that that worries me about multi-platform releases compared to merely porting it to console after making the game as desired on PC.

I concur, developing with consoles in mind is a problem in an of itself. Being paid by MS to do a simultaneous release is much, much worse. Not only this will add a large amount of work into the equation(which may or may not be fully covered by MS money), this may also incur any kinds of agreements PP team will have to abide to, including hardware requirements, UI/UX and possibly even gameplay features.

I am seriously concerned by this as the last thing I want is for a major console publisher having a direct influence on the design of the game which was kickstarted while being advertised as independent niche title.
As @Aknazer pointed out, releasing on a console is one thing, being paid by console vendor to have a simultaneous release is a completely different can of worms…

Microsoft has zero control or input in the development or direction of the game. Our agreement with Microsoft is to be available on their Xbox Game Pass, which means there also has to be an Xbox version of the game. We are still an independent studio. Microsoft are not our publisher. Snapshot Games retains full creative control and ownership of the intellectual property.

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Sure, legally you are independent. But from my experience, if fellow A just gave fellow B a lot of money, when fellow A later asks for a small favour, fellow B will feel obliged to indulge his benefactor. Call me a sceptic if you will, but I’ve seen a fair amount situations where money influenced relationships between parties even without any explicit obligations. Not saying PP will automatically become a “console trash”, just being concerned, tis all.

While we can’t go into details, we do of course have a written contract with Microsoft. Julian and Snapshot Games were only willing to enter into this with Snapshot Games explicitly remaining in full control of the project without outside interference.

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Just to confirm - Microsoft have no direct influence over the game design at all, and no ability to influence this financially either. The only thing we need to comply with are the technical requirements for an Xbox One release. The Microsoft contract came about because they liked our vision for the game as it is.

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I understand the cynicism and scepticism but sometimes it’s as simple as Julian says it is, and I have no reason whatsoever to doubt him. Sometimes it’s as simple as Microsoft saying, “Hey, we like your game, can we give you a bunch of money and in return we stick your game on Xbox Game Pass on release day?”. Other than Snapshot getting a brown envelope (benefits…self explanatory), this also works for Microsoft as it gives them another title which they can add to Game Pass for very little work, other than stuffing aforementioned brown envelope.

I’d only start thinking otherwise if they were on board from the beginning, which they weren’t and neither did Snapshot need Microsoft brown envelopes to finish the game (for PC).

Added: let’s all remember that this also isn’t porting of old, i.e. PC to PS3/Xbox 360. These new consoles are closer to being PC’s than they ever were and cross platform development is nowhere near the headache it used to be.

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While we can’t be too specific about the arrangement, what I can say is we definitely weren’t “onboard” from the beginning. The agreement happened within the last few weeks as the run up to E3 intensified. Microsoft want new and interesting indie titles for their Game Pass service. Developers get reimbursed (after-all, people who can play on the Game Pass are potentially lost sales). To be on Game Pass, we require an Xbox version. Brown envelope takes care of that. We have dedicated staff to work on the porting. Technical support from both Microsoft and Unity. One of our coders is even an ex-Unity developer (as in, he worked on the Unity engine).

We’re building the game on PC/Mac as intended, and that same game will make it to the Xbox. Other than some technical changes for the Xbox hardware the game is not going to change.

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This all makes total sense.

This has the added benefit of getting the game onto Xbox One/One X consoles and opens up another player base. Who knows, specifically because of this, there may one day be enough money for a bonus for the staff and a sequel for the rest of us.

<I can see @UnstableVoltage nodding in my mind’s eye…> :smile:

To me it does not sound too bad that a big company is interested in the game and is offering support because they wa nt it to be released for their console as well.

Our concern has to do with what is called parity. It seems like you don’t know what that is so I’ll explain it for you (and anyone else who might be following but not know). Parity is where something is changed to be roughly equal with something else. In video games this has lead to graphics being lowered, features being cut, etc. Now generally this stuff is done behind closed doors which makes it rather hard to definitively prove (though when the PC version receives an update and suddenly the max graphics are caught being lowered to console max settings but a mod restores the old graphics, it’s pretty obvious what has happened regardless of what the company says). And this was the concern of some of us. That Snapshot would be forced into something that ultimately hurts the PC version of the game for the sake of the console version.

So the concern wasn’t that MS was interested in the game but rather what strings they would attach behind closed doors. What the team has put out has assuaged my concerns on the subject but hopefully this helps explain why we were worried. Also there’s been issues in the past of the PC version getting neglected (sub-par optimization, UI issues, etc) though that wasn’t one of my concerns in this case.

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In fairness, this is usually a symptom of games developed primarily for console and then ported (badly) to the PC (usually by a 3rd party developer)…[Looking at you Arkham Knight and Mortal Kombat X]

I am super excited to see this come to Game Pass and console! Was a highlight announcement from E3 for me.

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Beyond parity, there are many things that mean multi platform releases may or may not hurt a PC product. You have to account for general game design and user behavior. a console gamer archetype sits on a couch far from the screen and a PC gamer sits at a desk, probably a bit too close to the screen for their own eyes. Console UI has to be bigger and simplified to account for this. A game has to be controller friendly too.

If your game is fast paced and requires mongoose-grade reaction times, the frame rate is different on consoles and not all TVs will be good enough to accommodate this.

The list goes on, and that’s not even diving in marketing decisions accounting for different user profiles for console and PC, irrelevant here.

Even when Sony, MS (and probably Nintendo, although I never had to deal with them) don’t have any stake in the creative development, the compliance process is a nightmare for QA departments as the book of regulations is thick enough to be used as a blunt weapon and contains asinine regulations that may force you to make concessions in unexpected areas of the game (or at least used to, I hope it’s been simplified since I last worked in that area)

When all is said and done, I still trust Phoenix Point’s word though, and that’s enough. As long as they get enough money from MS to deal with the port without taking resources away from the rest, good for them!

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I just picked this up for PC and now that it is coming to the Xbox Gaming Pass I am even more excited. For one that means I will not have to double dip on game. Two it is always nice playing on a larger screen to check it out on 4K at times as well. The fact that Phoenix Point stated what they did I am more then fine with that. I think parity is also going to be a thing of the past. We are seeing now with the Xbox X that higher end consoles will have the graphical benefits vs the lower end ones such as the Xbox S with better frame rates and resolution. Much like how PC gaming in and vs High end GPUs budget GPUs. You go with fits your budget. It’s now up to the developers on how they want to push the games especially with new systems having the X86 architecture.

Hmm and you can’t play on PC on larger screen?

Clearly. historically M$ hasnt attracted many fans because of their own corporate and end user policies, but hey, flight simulator, natural keyboard and Xbox are their “good choices”.

While I am a Linux / Windows player, I hope after the XBox release and DLCs you could think of poor PS4 users, who knows even Nintendo WII U ones or PS3 ones if game can scale to that (PowerPC) driven hardware.

In console wars, its best if possible to just support them all.

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Why would you release on the Wii U though? that’d be like releasing on the PS1.

The Switch on the other hand.

Because WII U is far more hardware powerful, more then PS3, leave alone how Nintendo fail it.

Switch is handheld and is not really more powerful and in same league.

Its more like PS1 and improved gameboy.

There is a second rationale beyond it. Secondary market.
Now when PS3 is “old fashion” (and WII U as well), these consoles get so low priced in usable states, they became accesable to poorer classes / people in developing countries.

As game pricetag will also fall after 1-2 years (and it will get bugfixed too) such “old console” releases for $20-30 price could mean a lot of purchases for that old-new “hungry for new titles” market.

Similar is reason why Linux is included in gaming arena, but would love to see it extended to ARM and PPC as Linux is flexibile and merely needs an recompile for different CPU arch. Why not playing the game on some strong tablet or IBM Talos workstation (or G4/G5 PPC Macs/AmigaOnes if possible?)

I could move the PC to the TV for the 4K, but that gets to be to much of a hassle to do that. I have a 34" gaming monitor that I play that is 21:9 2560x1080. I love Ultra Wide Screen resolutions and most likely will upgrade the Monitor in the future to higher resolution one (3440x1440). My TV is 55" so the size on that is nice to play on as well. Not to mention the surround sound with Dolby Atmos.

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