If you don’t agree, we have nothing to talk about.
I hesitate to post this because I know I’m going to get personally attacked for it and I really don’t have time to get dragged down that rabbit hole, but not every member of the CC agrees with @drages
Yes, it is incredibly frustrating when your feedback doesn’t get acted upon, and at times it can feel like we’re not being listened to, but in my more than 2 years of interacting with SG in various ways I can honestly say that I’ve yet to experience a company that is more engaged with listening to its player base that SG.
This at times results in them paying more attention to the 50+% that makes up the so-called ‘casual audience’ than the 5% that makes up the ‘hardcore’, but not all the time.
While many won’t thank me for this, I personally feel I’ve been instrumental in the much-needed nerfing of Sniper Rage Burst (where you could literally end a Citadel Mission on Turn 1 by gunning down a Scylla from the opposite end of the map), the reconfiguring of both Citadel and Lair Missions, the creation of Alien Evolution, the (over)-nerfing of Acid DoT, the ‘casualisation’ of the game so that Easy is now at least not as punishingly hard as it was on the Epic release and a bunch of other things that are too many to count.
And for the record, while I don’t particularly like what they did with RB, it at least now means you have to work & think about how you use it, rather than just firing it off like a no-brainer. The sense of achievement when you lure a Scylla into your carefully laid RB crossfire trap is imho what games like this are made of.
So no, I don’t think the devs are lazy. I don’t think they don’t listen to us. I don’t think they just take the money and run.
I think they’re working their socks off with too few resources to try to turn this runaway train around and make it a game that both Casuals and the Experienced Hardcore will enjoy. But it’s going to take them time.
And before someone says: ‘but they’ve already had time,’ I’d invite you to look at the mess of a game that was released on Epic and how far it had come by the Steam release. Whether you like it or not, this is a BIG, complex, sprawling game that is bursting with too many ideas - some of which have not been implemented very well, and others of which are great!
So I actually agree with @oSiyeza that this game is not perfect - it’s not even great yet - but it’s a damn sight better than XCOM (which I loved, btw) and it’s getting better all the time.
And that’s in part because the devs are prepared to keep working on it and to listen to people like me patiently plugging away in the CC, and people like you posting your feedback here and on Canny/Discord/Reddit.
There’s a lot still in the pipeline and the devs are still dedicated to fixing as many of the problems we all flag up as they can within the limited time and budget that they have. So maybe cut them a bit of slack, eh?
Or at least stop personally abusing them for not being your particular kind of perfect.
They’re not mine either - and this game is nowhere near where I would like it to be yet - but rather than abusing them and loudly sulking about it, I find that patiently and politely pointing out to them what the flaws are tends to get better results.
Oh, and for the record, I don’t much like Festering Skies.
I don’t think it signposts information to the players nearly enough.
I think not being able to directly interact with the Behemoth is bad - though I’m glad we managed to get some indirect interaction with it into the game.
I think the mini-game is fairly shallow and uninteresting.
And I hate the fact that you can only attach one Support Module, which gives you absolutely no choice because the only Modules worth fitting if you can fit only 1 are Dodge and Fire Suppression.
On the other hand, I love the Corrupted Haven Missions - except that the Corruption Node is very easily exploitable if you know what you’re doing - and I like the much-needed danger presented by Myrmidons (though they are also very easy to kill).
The Gift was the subject of a lot of debate. it still doesn’t signpost things as well as I think it should (like the fact that you’ll lose your original Manticore), and it is incredibly easy to cheeze with a vehicle or a single Heavy (but what player new to this DLC is ever going to enter that mission with a single Heavy - you have to know the mission AND know what you’re doing to enable that particular cheat).
But it’s also a great fun mission if you come at it cold, or with a standard squad.
So while I personally don’t like certain aspects of the DLC, I’ll happily enable it on my YOE Pass, take the good bits and live with the bad.
Why do you think so? Why would someone attack you if you just say you enjoy the game and there is still hope.
Of course other cc members got their own ideas even they change their idea or reactions time to time.
All cc ppl are fans of pp, like me. We all love pp. Just some of us are not happy with sg. And sg does not like people who talks bad about them or their game.
There is some problems about this. The player base is the biggest problem of pp. Because that people are casuals for sg, not proper tbs players.
They are canny and people can tell their problems and it looks good but as you are a cc member, you know that sg promised to open a special q a canny as we want more answers but they never answer anything.
So maybe it was better at early days but that is not true today. Even at cc, I did not see any question got answer at all and there is no dev active on here or steam forums too.
If they listen so well, why they failed at lota and fs so badly? They are not more then average for sure. So why can’t they create a good content for months?
You talk about feelings and I talk about actions. Sorry but result is bad.
Maybe you haven’t been as much involved with community in other games as you are now with PP and SG? Because you are, since the very beggining. Me, I don’t see that connnection at all. Even Ubisoft put more effort to engage with its player-base than Snapshot Games is (and I am not exaggerating, Ubisoft really is and has empoyees engaging almost every single issue you post and actively tries to find a solution for you), and Ubisoft isn’t the company you would think of being very “communicative”.
I think that’s very true - in the sense that listening is a passive way of engagement. Firing off a survey, inviting and consuming feedback on platforms like Canny, having an in-game bug reporting tool (have any of you had an email follow up? What’s the point of providing your email address?) - these are excellent initiatives, but very much in a one-way fashion.
There are other avenues where it’s less so - like developer Twitch streams and CC discord - but they are less obvious and not quite what your average player would expect based on his experience with other games, which is that forums are where the discussion (involving the devs - think of blue posts on Blizz forums) takes place. I wonder if the sturm and drang of the Epic deal days put them off forums as a medium.
Its external impression, results speak for themselves. Like our best appearance vs what we really are. Too bad capitalist voodo and jedi tricks, dont pass in Serbia.
I’m generally supportive of your posts, but I must make one criticism here and I hope you see it as constructive:
I’ve been to the forums about 2 days ago. I come back now and this specific topic has more than a 100 replies about how you think others should present their arguments. I’m having a real bad time going through it and there’s still about a 100 replies left. The same thing happens in other topics.
Please refrain from that, since as you know the Internet has people from all age ranges and from many different cultures. By forcing people to discuss how you do, and consider the only way possible, you’re polluting the forums much more. If someone says something you don’t like or don’t agree, you’re free to state your opinion (be it also a fact or not) but please do not start heated discussions by telling people how wrong they are. You just end up sounding like a smart ass with ego issues after a time. Mind you, I don’t see you as that at all, I’m just pointing out what you easily may come across as.
Maybe I was not clear enough, and Im aware that the conversation is stupidly long and of not interest for many.
Regardless, as different ban/warning actions seem to have been requested towards me by a number of people. Publicly here and other posts, privately, and formally. Based on the claims of me making personal attacks, psychoanalyzing people, making claims on the mental health of others, name-calling and spam. and since the situation seems to be getting out of hand. I think a response is in order.
I will try to express as clearly as I can what what happened from my perspective:
The single point I made, that summarizes the entire conversation, is that implying the SG devs do not care about the players, or that they ignored, or scammed them; or even claiming that they designed the game for casuals and only care about cosmetic changes; using the perceived lack of quality from the game. Is not supported by the actions of the devs, and is not a valid way to argue.
Then another absurdly long discussion endured of me arguing that subjective impressions should not be claimed as facts to the point of assuming what is in the mind of others.
Here is a copy of some fragments arising during these conversations, mostly used in the ban request which I decided to contextualize (the first belongs to a different post but was also (partially) quoted in the request against me):
I ack that by not just leaving some comments unresponded or by me being confrontational, the conversation ended being a nightmare for anyone not taking part on it. I would probably had not persisted as much it if the OP was not created by me, or If I did not judge that many coments disqualified the devs personally, and others were simmilarly being personally addressed to me. But that is besides the point.
Regarding this comment I will only say that the principles of charity and reason in my opinion are not and should not be seen as dependant on cultural backgrounds. But universal principles that should be preserved to warrant honesty in conversations.
I will no longuer comment on the issue (since everybody is more than bored enough about it).
I am enjoying the new DLC. I like how they made the insect things. They have a huge range but hey it makes it more fun.
I would suggest a few changes but need to play test more probably.
I would suggest adding it so I can intercept with a squadron (2 fighters) since after the first air combat, the alien ships have advanceed weaponry and I can’t take them out with one. Currently, I bring one in until they knock out my weapons then cycle in another. Not a real big deal but a squadron would maybe make it faster.
For a base defense, can you make it so we can position our troops before the enemy shows up? It would save on having to walk everyone into position.
Can you give me incendiary ammo for the grenade launchers? I am having to throw the indendiary grenades but being able to load them into a launcher would be nice.
Adding a jump jet perk would be nice, so others than a heavy can use jump jet ability. I use it to scout with.
Lastly, If you guys can add a building in which I can retrain the perks to other perks or a random set of perks to change that up. It would make things interesting.
Thanks for all your hard work.
I have been enjoying all of the DLCs
P.S. for the person struggling with the PURE… (spoiler below).
EMP grenades, sniper rifles and the minigun are your best friends. haha.
Game on fellow gamers. Thanks again Phoenix Point Team.
(Moving the content to separate topic)
Yes I got a fairly good education, It serves me well. Thank you.
Is there anything you want to say? Or just came to practise your conversation skills?
Please, stop making personal attacks on others.
@rasvoja: You have made personal comments about me more than 10 times in this post. And in at least 5 other posts. You have flagged me, made public and formal ban request, sent me private messages, tried to rally people against me and referenced me in the canny tool. And you have been repeatedly called out by moderators and CC as a result… and yet still you keep doing it… why?
If you have any problem with someone, flag him, ignore him, anything but this. Do not make a crusade of insulting and disrespecting people.
Also, I told you 3 times already that is not what psychoanalysis means. You know perfectly well you should not casually missuse mental health to discredit others, I know you don’t support it. But by falsely claiming over and over that you are being psychoanalyzed, by indulging people who directly uses mental health as an insult, and by making false accusations on it. You are.
Come on, be better than this.
I have not made a single personal comment on you, or anyone. I attack your arguments. If you don’t like your arguments being attacked, make better ones or just ignore me. Don’t insult people, dont lie about others, dont make false accusations, dont give credit to people who uses mental health as an insult.
What is wrong with you?
You know perfectly well I will flag you and call you on your behavior if you make personal references about me. You know what you are doing bothers everyone and is against the TOS, please stop it. Nothing good for you will come of behaving like this.
Aand another thread muted.
Thank you very much.
If you guys actually want to talk about the game sometime, rather than flinging abuse at each other, please let me know.
EDITED (personal insults and racism)
@rasvoja. I give up on you, If I cannot talk to you like a human being. I rather just not. You now have yet one less person to talk to.
Agree, the DLC is a nice add. The additional layer for air combat is nice, if simplistic, I feel like there’s now something going on all the time and enough parallel story/mission threads to make it interesting. You have to choose whether to invest in air power or go after the Ancient weapons. Infested havens with aircraft require planning and orchestration to assault. It’s all a nice add and finally feels like there’s enough variety to keep it interesting.
Overall the game is really reaching a place where I feel like it’s a whole product, and a good one at that.
For me, at present, it’s a failure, not so much for bugs but design decisions. Not being able to intercept craft in flight and only at poi’s, very simplistic click fest shoot down game, no discernible aircraft research. I feel it’s just a general let down, I’m glad I didn’t pay for it.
Same here. FS put the doom in doom counter! My strategy used to result in a comfortable 50+% population at the end, but now I’m in the upper 30s and this is only on Hero. Anu is building her temple and NJ wants some help, but Syn is below 18,000 pop with research times > 30 days. Does anything special happen if a faction is eliminated? The Behemoth invaded Africa destroying 2 more havens, but I’ve just finished shooting down all his flyers so that should be interesting. It took 9 aircraft to do this. Luckily all that happened during this stretch was that the Brazil base got attacked and the Ukraine base got bombard a bit by a corrupt NJ ship.