Heaven populations should grow and not only decrease

Even if peoples in heavens may understandably starve when there is not enough food suffly, it would be normal that the population increase the same speed when there is more food supply than population in heavens !

I also never understood why “Super Advanced” Synedrion Haven with lots of parks can’t grow enough food for their people. Same with “Steadfast and Efficient” New Jericho. They have resources to build massive walls but not to grow some potatoes. I understand when they are within mist but outside of it? Why they constatnly lose hundreds of people?

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I think you mean “havens” and are not trying to make a theological point.

At first I wanted to answer: “Nonsense! The game only takes several months and people don’t breed that fast in post-apocallyptic world!”
But then I thought maybe they could attract strangers to join their havens given they have enough food supply?

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Yes, that makes sense, but why not breeding as well (after all as we saw in the Terminator univers, love (and not only) can blossom on a battlefield) ?

Because pregnancy period is 9 months which is out of the time-scale of Phoenix Point game?

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They don’t all have to be celibate until the start of the game though :wink:

You’re right though, it is a tight time scale - And I agree about survivors staggering in, you should especially get a boost to havens that are near to those that have been attacked recently.

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I would change Havens system a little bit and separate them in 3 major groups:
Outpost
Camp
Fort
(names can be any)
The idea is that each type of shelter must be represented in a different amount.
Each large settlement (with a population of more than 10,000 people) should be surrounded by several smaller settlements that are able to support it.

The system will look like this:
In the center is a large “fort” in which laboratories are located. centers of elite training, etc.
Nearby are less populated centers where production facilities are located. And in the end, small settlements that basically only produce energy, food, and other basic resources. and have a small population.

What will it give us? At a minimum, the shelters will not die out of starvation.

Its looks insane when these havens just starve to death. In my run i had hmmm… 7 NJ heavens without food supplies at all. Thats :brain:

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Population never grows as fast as the one loosing people from starvation. And the time-span is too short there. Even if there would be a surplus then the change would be not significant.

For Synedrion you are right. But New Jericho is not so technologically advanced. They don’t have genetics tech which can overcome mutations of plants. Walls are resistant to virus. :slight_smile:

This would be only good reason for a haven to get an increase in population. They could attract over time and definitely when nearby havens would get destroyed and they would accommodate survivors.

This is against logic. In the lore people try to spread and stay hidden to survive. Otherwise there would be one or two “megacities” on each continent per faction. But they try to be scattered. So if one haven falls all the other stay safe… at least for some time.

I was reading the PP lore book and the was a short story about Synedrion. In this story the Synedrion scientists were bartering with New Jericho giving them new plant seeds supposedly resistant to infection to try out.

Unfortunately in my playthrough Synedrion attacked New Jericho and now these two factions destroy each other’s havens. Only the Disciples of Anu look sane so far :crazy_face:

Yes, but they don’t always have to trade those seeds. :smiley:

Eeeh… havens with thousands of people, even tens of thousands - is it called hiding?
Small groups of survivors, yes. But all the main factions are not trying to hide.

Even that would be more logical. It is doubtful to me that Vanadium Corporation had bases all over the planet or Anu followers with cities in Antarctica.

To be honest, I don’t even believe in the Sanhedrin. They do not fit into the world of the game, with their ideals they would not even have survived until the 2040s. Not to mention that the general level of technology is too high for a world that has been destroyed by wars, starvation, and pandoravirus for more than 20 years.

And the lack of countries or their remnants. Something tells me that at least countries in the mountainous regions or in the center of the continents would survive in one form or another.

It is not about being alone in the hole in the ground. But small settlement counting from 4 k to 20 k people is less visible than one which has over 100 k.

Read the lore please.

So you say that Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos wouldn’t be able to create settlements around their offices around the world in the span of something like 20 years? Especially with the help of the surviving people? :slight_smile:

If Antarctica is without permafrost, and Disciples have mutation tech where they can grow all necessary food they need, and they even can sacrifice their own people for “greater good”, I don’t see a reason why it wouldn’t be possible.

-> Synedrion <- Well that is something about which sci-fi can speculate. But the game is not about whether there is Yuggoth or not. We assume some things are possible in this particular world setting.

The Sanhedrin (Hebrew and Jewish Palestinian Aramaic: סנהדרין; Greek: Συνέδριον,[1] synedrion , “sitting together,” hence “assembly” or “council”) were assemblies of either twenty-three or seventy-one elders (known as “rabbis” after the destruction of the Second Temple), appointed to sit as a tribunal in every city in the ancient Land of Israel.

And that Sanhedrin is something completely different in ideology than Synedrion. :slight_smile: That is why I have corrected him.

btw I suppose that Macedonian Synedrion was the most close to game’s Synedrion, but it was also some hierarchical body which doesn’t apply to the game lore.

You’ll be telling us next that Anu isn’t the sky father :wink:

Wait… so you are saying these havens haven’t even stock-piled a few months of stores of food?

Thats pretty dumb…

Pretty much any half intelligent leader would have at least 3 months if not more of food stockpiled in times of plenty, so by the same logic, the population shouldn’t go down either.

As we can see in the haven info not all have food. We don’t know their situation from previous 3rd mist. :slight_smile: But yes it may feel pretty dumb.