Enemy sniper squads?

Phoenix Point Game Feedback
1

Just played on a friend’s account for awhile and it all looks great except for enemy snipers.

I was wondering whether they’re working as intended. I was on a medium rated map, squad of 5 guys, just 4-5 combat missions into a Calamity campaign, and on the first round I took up cover, including putting a couple of soldiers in elevated positions. No sign of the enemy. Can’t ask for anything more, right? A solid way to be safe while figuring out who and where the enemy are, or at least I would have thought so.

Pandorans started their turn, one sniper moved into sight and then shots from out-of-sight enemies just came flying in (but none flanking me) and before the round was over 2 of my guys were dead and another on low health and a crippled arm. Multiple, unseen enemies from almost right across the map, despite all soldiers being in cover. That’s some of the sniperiest sniping I think I’ve ever seen in a game since Terror from the Deep :slight_smile:

Turns out the enemy consisted entirely of 6-7 snipers who just hugged the edges of the map and picked us off. Obviously, taking out that many opponents with 3 borderline panicky soldiers didn’t work out very well.

So is this a common setup? Groups of snipers? Was I unlucky with their first turn aiming or are they supposed to be that deadly? Does a ‘medium threat rating’ refer to where you, the player, are at in the campaign or is it a more general rating? Is Calamity just much more difficult than Impossible/Legendary in the Firaxcoms? The difficulty spike compared to the comparative ease of the prior missions was unbelievable.

The actual problem is that I can’t see myself playing Ironman with this kind of thing going on and that’s a massive loss of tension. I never played Ironman in the originals but I’ve gotten used to it in the Firaxcoms and don’t want to lose that feeling.

If I get PP, I suspect I’d have to make saves before missions, or make one at the start, and then try to do them in one go, in other words, not use more saves once in the mission itself…because being literally only one turn into a mission and ending up with half a squad killed before you even know where the enemy is and haven’t even started your second turn just isn’t my bag baby :wink: Personal preference, obviously, but for me it’s a shame.

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The Tritons get one type of weapon for the mission, if they get snipers, they are very dangerous. They use “your” type of snipers so you can easy compare the power of the weapon. The only way is go out of sight and use only full cover. Typically they hide behind cover too so you need to get closer with your assaults, use explosives from range or have luck with your sniper to aim them.

I really like the Tritons with sniper, they are a challenge compared to Tritons with pistols.

I think it is calculated by the enemies you encounter so Tritons with a pistol are the same like Tritons with a sniper but as you see the diffuculty is much harder. It is like Artherons with rifles or granade launchers.

If you don’t play good strategy and let them destroy all your weapons, it will be very hard!

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Here are completely no logic in spawn generations, just stupid crowds and crowds of identical creatures. Absolutely most fights you will see up to 40 tritons with same guns and mutations, or packs of arthrons (sometimes it would be 2 kinds of) supported by couple of huggers. I changed few tactics before found my best one, and enemies were the same all the time (except more advanced mutations like ‘pain chameleon’). There are no combined support combinations and no tactics at enemies AI now. Well, except few preplanned missions. In random battles it’s just a swarms of snipers with chameleon ability. As I see, they even doesn’t try to shot in hands - it might happen accidentally only.

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Yes there is no logic in the mutations you meet as you progress in the game. In my first missions i met crabs with MG and grenades and triton with mist and sniper rifles, the worst kind of both; some mission later i found triton with chameleon and pistol and crabs with shield and melee, a stroll in the park with dog and child also considering that my soldiers were stronger

Now, five bases 2 manticores and more than enough lvl 7 soldiers to fill three squads, mist is coming back as are grenades. Aliens are also with groups of Syrens and/or Chirons, good challenging fights.

I’m speaking of heaven defences, diplo missions are tougher. Crabs and Triton also have more HPS, this was a continual progression from the beginning; they started at 150 and now they have 270, not 100% sure to shotgun one dead at point blank, also considering that now thei have more armor and all crabs have an armored carapace

Anyway finding snipers with lvl 1 or 2 soldiers is no fun

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Thanks for all the replies, I think I understand a bit more about how it works now, cheers.

Still not happy with regards specifically to Ironman but maybe I’ll just have to do ‘Bronze Man’ instead :slight_smile:

Firaxcom pod activation was sometimes ridiculous, but I now see why they decided to go that route. When a pod activates, the game is presenting your enemies to you and saying, ‘Here’s your strategic puzzle, now try and solve it while limiting damage to your soldiers’. How you moved through maps and triggered pods was also part of the strategy layer. In comparison, the problem with the All Sniper Triton Squad scenario I describe in the 1st post is that the major damage comes first on literally the 1st enemy turn and then the puzzle is presented to the player afterwards.

If I use saves then sure, I can just play as normal and when I lose two guys upon enemy contact to snipers I can just go, ‘Oh, it’s one of those missions’. Then I can just reload the mission start and assume ‘anti-sniper tactics’ but it’s less than ideal, imo.

I just don’t think getting shot from off screen before you even know who or where the enemy are is a good mechanic, when even full cover doesn’t guarantee a soldier will survive to their next turn, especially if the snipers actually number 5+ rather than just one or two per map.

In fact, I’d say that’s some 90’s level ‘rough around the edges’ gameplay that I, personally, could do without. I’m pretty sure the younger, more mainstream strategy gamer will, more often than not, find it even less appealing too.

I know it’s the master himself, Mr Gollop, but imho, that kind of stuff needs to be relegated to video game history. I didn’t like getting mind-controlled from across the map in TftD and I didn’t like the Skyranger getting nuked before your guys even got off the loading ramp :wink: I put up with those things back in the day when it all seemed so new, especially since I didn’t play Ironman campaigns anyway, but nowadays I want it more trustworthy and ‘cleaner’.

I’m also not enamoured with the potential lack of variety in the enemies you face in any single map if this is how enemies are generated in the final release. It’s like fighting just Archons or having a map with 12 Vipers, but that’s a separate discussion I guess.

@Ryu Yeah, I was thinking about the possibility of staying inside buildings, staying away from doorways and windows while slowly moving through the map with overwatch until I get close with assaults. That could be cool and intense, once in a while. Trouble is, though again only with regards to Ironman, that’s what I’d feel I have to do at the start of every-single-mission until I find out whether I’m up against a sniper squad or not.

Anyway, rant over. I really appreciate what Snapshot are doing and all their hard work.
I’m still very interested in the game and really like the other elements so far so I don’t want anyone thinking I’m just slagging the game off.

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You haven’t played the old X-COM series, did you?
It was the thrill to see an alien shooting from the other side of the map (the maps where like 5-10 times larger that now) any you see the bullet flying over many screens to you hoping it won’t hit any of your soldiers. And because of the fog of war you was only able to see the direction where it came from, not more.

In my opinion they could also give Artherons a kind of sniper too, that would make them maybe a bit more challenging. But it don’t have to be that all aliens on a map have the same weapon (eg. sniper), noone wants to fight 10 snipers. :wink:

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The worst thing you can meet here is a dozen crabs with grenade launchers in a nest, launching over the walls from the fog of war, a lot worst than snipers, trust me

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I would prefer those grenadiers - one of solutions it to be mobile and spot nearby corridors - and then eliminating nearby threat or retreat. :slight_smile: Against snipers only solution is killing everything on the map in first turn.

EDIT: Of course grenadiers are really nasty and can be worse if player won’t prepare for such situation, but we still have some alternative and possible action to do which doesn’t look like Avengers fight. :slight_smile: I personally hate Arthrons with grenade launcher, but also I think they are bugged and weapon destruction will be changed. Still I think that a lot of snipers shooting me during the night mission is kind of worse option. :wink:

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Actually, developers gave you a final bonus - right of first turn :slight_smile:
But with simple maths, we have median damage 50hp/ap (without expences for moving!) , what equals approx 200 damage from soldier / turn, 1200 from 6-person team. So, while I see 35 tritons with 150hp (5250 hp summary) and pyfagoras, who can get me from almost whole point - I feel full right to use all magical abusements what I find. well, I felt a slight shame about this. But then the game began to freeze in almost every enemy turn, so… Now I see a terrific, bewitching balance between negative and positive bugs. This balance really holds me tight. I have no idea how it can change after fixing technical bugs, so I try not to make any suggestions to simplify or complicate the game process itself. In the end, if the developers are going to keep this way of spawn generations in the game and add more AI to them, I will demand even more bugs that I can use for survival, instead of fix them! :slight_smile:

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You always have to deal with the situation, regardless what enemies there are and equipment they have, you can mess up in any case. Granade launchers are by far not so hard to deal with than snipers. First of all they don’t deal that much dmg, but a granade and a bullet by the sniper can equally destroy your weapon or arm. BUT snipers are by far harder to kill, typically they are far away and hide behind something, Artherons don’t do so.

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hi,

do not forget the crazy move they have, a real ordeal, compare to our sniper level 7.

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Oh, I played them alright, that’s why I’m so excited about PP :wink: I agree with you about the mystery and thrill of having shots come out from the darkness but this felt different.

Anyway, like I said, its only with regards to Ironman that I have concerns.

I also agree with you about the fact that more enemy variety within a single map would be good :slight_smile:

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Shots out of the dark I’m good with, but in combination with that you need troops that are a bit more expendable, not the super powered freaks that we have now.

10 snipers is ridiculous, someone else said it earlier, we need to face an opposition that’s using combined arms.

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Yes, I agree about expendables and superpowered freaks. Well, except that right now these freaks maintain a glitchy balance at a playable level - I still hope there will be fewer bugs, what means that our soldiers will need to be nerfed. They should be nerfed. But which way it could be realised in frames of existing mechanics? I really cannot believe that game balance could be changed strongly, quickly and carefully sametime. So, what developers could change in frames of existing mechanics?
Cut soldiers’ willpower cap or raise price of abilities?
Nerf abilities and cut their maximum quantity? Ok, it’s simpliest way to make an equilibrium between human and aliens: just take existing battle mechanics and cut mostly abused abilities. And you will have expendable soldiers, And useful ground vessels. All their level upgrading will include just more power/speed/will. You may even remove their level cap if they almost have no abilities, and they still will have ‘square root’ effectiveness of level growth, instead of ‘square’ like now. Expendables! Looks almost fine and closely to old classic X-com. But isn’t it a bit booooring?)
Probably, I prefer to have a growth of aliens strength (NOT QUANTITY! :slight_smile: ). Into my current game experience, my favorite fight was with 6-8 Chirons, 4-5 sirens and just a few small support. In that case it was unable to get extra WP and AP from headshot killing of tens tritons. It was difficult to use shotguns because of good armor. It was nervous, and it spents more than one turn! I want it moar! :slight_smile: Huge aliens, who can by killed into eye only, aaaarghhh!

15

This!

I found the snipers are a PITA on an open map. My work around is to get indoors ASAP. As soon as you are indoors, cover the entrances with assaults and use firecats to pop out, shoot and get back. They need to come into your working ranges rather than just spamming you from the other side of the map.

In the nests I have far more trouble with nade launching crabs or the tritons dropping mist making the line of sight zero.

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Nope.

And that’s why. :wink:

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Are we talking about same thing?))) Looks like about different - I probably found the way how to keep existing system of abilities without any changes: Just add more aliens who will neutralize that abilities. They should be able to stay alive more than 2 shotgun/heavy shots like Siren (Chirons die from 2). But that means much more careful spawn generation when mission launches. But that is still looks much more easy than abilities rebalancing. And in that case we will keep soldiers who more interesting than boring expendables with no skills :wink:

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It’s the same thing but maybe with an opposite POV. Expendable troops is far more interesting to me, I want that feeling of nervousness that you described above. Boring is where they can’t die because they have so many powers. It’s cool for a mission, but this equals zero tension in the game in the long room. What’s the point of playing a game if you can’t lose at it? There’s no challenge that way… other than trying to stay awake.

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Oh but they can if they meet with 10 - 12 Sirens, and it will be more painful to loose 1 lovely highlevel than a pack of meat! :slight_smile:
Actually, after I got a pack of 7-lvl assault-berserkers, I’m ready to meet about 20 Sirens. But what about 25? :crazy_face: About 300-400 damage for 1 AP and return 2 AP after kill. I want to keep it!

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I suspect that with the high level guys that there’s a lot higher incentive to then save scum. I’d rather be playing a game where a single loss doesn’t affect you that much, and you just take the hit and then push on.

(Why not have the option to meet a thousand and have guys who can just click their fingers and obliterate the entire battlefield?)

In BB1 you had 4 or 5 guys who could barely take down a few crabmen and the queen between them, more often than not you lost some along the way (if not the whole troop) that to me was really interesting, BB5 superpowers are just making dire tripe, it’s supposed to be a game with horror in it, and it’s currently playing like a Marvel movie.