Enemies can inflict up to 3200% their normal damage, with this mechanic. And since many enemies can have this trait, if they take up a mildly dispersed formation, it can easily become suicidal to shoot at anyone.
Of course, a lot of these guys protecting this mechanic, who keep talking about their many snipers, are no doubt abusing it with Return-Fire Sniper and Heavy Builds. You can get up to 30 enemies in the game, right? 3000% damage is achievable for EACH of your guys with Return Fire. With a Heavy or a Sniper, you can theoretically end up using over 100 Action Points in a single turn, where your AMMO is the only thing stopping you.
I don’t like getting advantages through exploiting dumb mechanics, nor do I like dumb mechanics turning a tactical cover shooter into a game of Rock Paper Scissors (Assault < Return-Fire < Sniper) no matter how fulfilling a few people find it…
Actually I’v had very few characters with RF in my time playing PP.
I just adapt my tactics to the situation at hand and deal with it.
I will admit to blatantly abusing Dash, Quick Aim and The One Where You Get Half Your APs Back For a Kill in previous BBs though
I will also own up to telling the devs on multiple occasions that all of the above were massively OP and they should deal with it. I’ll be interested to see if they listened, when I finally get the time to sit down and play this game for more than an hour or so.
Admittedly, the exploit strategy that never gives your enemy a chance to get a shot in is far better. It’s also a lot faster than setting up sniper positions to take out every guy with RT (there’s a lot of them).
I think the judgment that RF makes up for a less-than-competent AI is probably right. Of course, if they nerfed it, then the game would become considerably easier. I guess I just have less of a problem with an artificial mechanic in a game where I’m fighting lovecraftian horrors.
Given that this feature has been in since BB1, I don’t expect it to change. If you can accept it as an artificial challenge feature of a game mechanic, perhaps it won’t bug you as much.
FWIW, I’ve been playing backer builds for a while now, and there are relatively few enemies with the ability. That said, I’ve yet to play the release extensively, so take that assessment with a grain of salt.
TBH, once you’ve figured out how the game works, RF is rarely a problem. The trick is to make the sightlines work for you.
Anyway, enough of this topic. We’re just going round in circles and if I stop posting on this damn forum I might actually manage to create some time to actually play the game.
Let’s remember that UFOD literally had enemies wandering around in random directions. And everyone assumed there was some amazing AI behind them. I think the wrong approach is being taken with this, in several ways.
With RF, it can still be a challenge worth considering if it is less overpowered. If an enemy can attack you back, those are bullets you want to avoid taking. Some mutants with a lot of eyes and guns or such might be able to perform several RFs. They would necessitate good use of cover, and preferably you would take out their RF-granting eyes so they don’t fire back so much.
Enemies are heavily in the camp of hyper-aggressive bullet sponges. But they do know how to take cover, the humans at least. So I figure they just need to make the AI a bit more cautious, and have only a few characters try suicide rushes.
I assumed that, once you figure out there are snipers in the game, and that RF is overpowered and wipes out your assault troops, then it is obvious.
Once you realize the guys whose job it is, is to get close and shoot at an enemy from useless cover… then it’s obvious you must unequip the ARs, and equip the pom poms, so they can be cheer leaders for your useful (upper) classes.
Then you realize you HAVE to work out convoluted schemes to avoid shooting some hyper aggressive idiot standing out in the open… and it’s obvious you should just uninstall the game and reinstall Xenonauts.
PS: I’m having more fun discussing the game than playing it, at this point. Great game, but I feel I need to wait for modding support, or a patch inspired by God to make this playable.
Sure, that makes perfect sense, but then a knot of MG arthrons wouldn’t be nearly as scary. As goofy as the mechanic is sometimes, I like the element of danger it introduces.
I’d be fine if they tweaked it to make y’all happy, but I’m also fine with the unreality of it.
I don’t consider that scary, so much as irritating and dumb, honestly. A big dumb horde of squishy enemies just isn’t scary, practically. You set up your guys behind cover, let them rush through the fatal funnel, then drop them like flies. Even with RF that’s what tends to happen.
Now, if they took even basic measures to surround you, or to skirmish with you, that’d be a lot more worrying, as they outnumber you and can do that at an advantage.
If you want a scary, aggressive enemy, look no further than UFOD with the scariest of all… the Chrysallids!
Eh, I’ve been playing both tabletop and computer wargames most of my life, which is pretty long at this point. I have yet to play one that isn’t artificial or unrealistic to some extent. After all these years, I don’t get as worked up over it, but I certainly used to, so I get it.
I’ve gotten bored with XCOM, even though I love that game. It’s just nice to have a new toy.
It’s certainly new. Though it is strange games made for the Commodore are more realistic than many made today. UFO Defence, Elite, Darklands… those were the great games that inspired a generation of developers.
I can’t keep replaying them forever, I need new content. But if I’m going to have to settle for what compared to the classics is a second rate romance novel (trash)… well, that’s why I don’t play many video games these days.
