And I don’t understand the problem behind that. With old dash not limited for number of use, there was a general problem of excessive mobility, ok.
But extreme speed isn’t a big deal, rush into enemies doesn’t look like a good option. And if it allows break Lairs design it’s not much important yet because Lairs need a big re design.
So where’s the problem? The only true speed exploit I remind have seen was only related to Lairs.
If you think that Arthron should be able to kill your fully healthy guy, who attacked him just a moment ago, without any AP spent and in your turn… and it is ok, then I suppose you may have some masochistic approach in your bucket, but it shouldn’t be like that for all players.
I will quote it for you if you can’t find it. 
Soldiers should go through walls like ghosts and fly like angels when they like. Why not it is not simulator. Please stop that nonsense about low value argument.
Interviews with developers or just logic as @pantolomin said.
No. @Zzzz is good example that lack of realism is not a problem for everyone. But realism helps keeping some logic and balance things.
Well my post in this topic about nonsense of some skills has more likes than any other post, so I suppose my arguments are quite clear and understandable for players that there is something wrong.
I suppose that game will stay as it is unrealistic for players like Zzzz, but I want to create a mod that will make this game more logical for players like me. Hard to say if I will be main author or just will cooperate with someone, but it would be great to create something like Long War mod for FiraXCOM, just for the Phoenix Point.
Steal research mission are also one turn missions with no risk as long as you can dash twice (8WP) with speedy assaults (20+)
Actually, I think that now dash is “worse” than before the “nerf”, because of the increase in distance.
Again, this does not come up unless you invest in speed, or use speed buffs (armor, blood lust, frenzy), but these are some of things that happen (none of them in lair maps):
With dash, closing range is trivial, and so is running back to safety. The AP cost doesn’t matter that much actually, because it can be refunded (RC or RtT), or you can use quickaim.
On the first turn the enemies tend to bunch up and make for easy targets (also no shields or overwatch), so with dash there is a huge incentive for alpha striking.
You could say “well, dashing serves to compensate for the shortcomings of short range fighters VS snipers”. However, dashing is just as useful for getting snipers into position.
There is a thing I’m noticing in my current playthrough: my first instinct is to cross every class with assault because of dash. The soldiers without dash are slow as snails in comparison.
So, in conclusion, dashing (with high speed + buffs) makes distances for all intents and purposes irrelevant for the player.
Mmm, I’m sure you don’t mean that enemies should not be able kill soldiers, but it looks a lot like that.
There’s something I don’t get in your comment.
Looks like a deaf dialog. There’s no soldier AP during enemy turn, RF is during enemy turn.
That’s just sarcasm, or it’s deaf dialog.
If it is not their turn and they do an attack without using AP and kill your soldier who has max HP then yes I mean that enemies should not be able to do that.
Think for a little bit. Overwatch costs AP? It does. So Return Fire should also cost you, no matter that it is enemy turn.
Have you checked the “mod” I made around return fire ? It might interest you.
By default:
Sure, it doesn’t prevent them from one-shoting your full life assault if they do return fire. But at least it removes the “illimited” and 360° aspects out of it. It stays free of AP, like sniper over-watch with a pistol. I find it acceptable this way (removing the 360° aspect removes the requirement to one-shot kill them).
And you can change some parameters in the “mod” if you want to play around and test what’s more suitable to you.
I still need to add a parameter though to remove the restrictions for turrets as it is their sole purpose. So I’ll be updating it.
Except it doesn’t increase distance, the extra distance is the AP used forced into an extra move. Old dash and one AP move was the same distance.
That said, for me old dash was a much more interesting skill, perhaps it was probably needing a number of use limit, in my opinion 3, but eventually 2. And involve AP in the count down was a bad idea.
I wonder from what comes the confusion, but it’s since some time I started thought that will and speed was needing a lower cap. And a cap for effect not value.
What you write is saying the problem are high speed and all speed buff… not really dash.
It’s as trivial to shoot from long range, if not a lot more trivial.
Instant kill isn’t that easy, RF is a point, just move one kill and retreat, it’s not that efficient. For RC, there’s probably something to tune, it’s a problem to constantly kill 5+ enemies at first turn in most combats as you do.
Remove dash would still hurt a lot shorter range and much less longer range.
Mmm that’s a bizarre argument, it’s your choice, where the proof that extra mobility from Dash is better than all other choices?
Distances are less relevant much more because of speed abuse.
Yes, you are right. I didn’t think of it this way. It’s a psychological effect then.
I’m ambivalent about involving AP cost in dash. On the one hand it does limit mobility (which is necessary, IMO), but on the other it adds further utility to quick aim and rally (and arguably rapid clearance), which are already too useful.
Yes. Or to be more precise, it’s a problem when dash and high speed or speed buffs are combined.
Dash by itself is not a problem.
The thing is each of the elements are not a problem in itself: high speed without dash or speed buffs is OK, dash without high speed or speed buffs is OK, speed buffs without high speed, or dash are also OK…
Which brings me to the idea of a hard cap on mobility.
Nice. Maybe I will install it once I will return to playing game, as I still try to balance weapons and skills (test different variants). I still don’t like that enemy basic unit can wipe out your soldier without any trouble outside of his turn, but at least you made option to avoid it. Which is nice tactical choice.
Most people here are complaining about arthrons, but IMHO most dangerous enemies are stealth tritons with snipers. They are like human infiltrator/sniper. They can snipe from other side of the map and you can’t even see them. Lost my lvl 7 heavy/sniper few days ago. Two shots in the head from down town and bye bye.
They are indeed bad, only 4 sniper shots and my heavy dies.
My died from two NJ sniper shots only. Had 200 health, PP heavy torso armor and Synedrion sniper head/leg armor. First shot was headshot, second probably headshot.
I heavily use snipers in game, and as soon as I get lvl 4 infiltrator I multiclass him with sniper and put him in first team. Looks like I don’t like the taste of my own medicine.
My heavies have 300 life, full Anvil-2 armor. Cyclops does 95 damage so it’s big, but still 4 shots to take one down.
Those tritons have basically one turn to live and do damage before I nuke their arms off with Fury or Goliath.
Having tanks in your front line is really a boost.
Technician in backline to heal any limbs.
How do you multiclass your tanks?
Berserker is a good choice to prevent Siren mind-control. Other than that I haven’t felt the need.
Having a priest nearby to prevent loss of will with screams.
I will have to try that tactics. For too long I play 2 scouts, 6 snipers game.
How about if every enemy could return fire except the one who is being shot at?
The problem with angle is that, unless I’m mistaken, the only way to change direction is movement, or overwatch.
Which brings me to the following suggestion: what if return fire was an enhancement of overwatch? So when a soldier has the return fire skill, his overwatch works differently/has different requirements? That is, activates not only on movement but also on an enemy firing, after they fire and before they return to cover (unless it is the soldier with RF who is fired upon).
This would also take care of the complaints of unwanted return fire (with mind controlled soldiers).
I would also allow multiple RF shots based on unspent APs at a discount (so 1 AP to fire AR in RF instead of 2).
Thoughts?
You can set the parameter to “false” in the configuration file for the “mod”. I have separated “target”, “casualties” (the ones that got hit but weren’t in the targets) and “bystanders” (all the rest).
It’s not just a psychological effect, the new dash push move on longer distances.
There’s no mobility, it’s speed, yes I think a cap for effective speed could benefit to the game, same for will even if the problem is more linked to attributes. But the game is missing characters sheet to make clear any cap.
On another way, you (and some other players) make a big deal about that, myself I find it minor. As I said, the only exploits I saw around that was lairs, but lairs need a redesign.
About that, weirdly I had my first lost ever in a Citadel, one of those timid/sneaky Scylla, and my team wasn’t top gun, it degenerated. I thought that perhaps Citadels could work if Scylla was sending troops to soldiers, and was delaying rush attack. That said I wonder how much fog throw was involved in my lost, and have only two long range that could do real damages from afar to the scylla didn’t help. So even with this approach Citadels would need a lot of rework anyway.