# The Deceptor machine gun is awful **URL:** \ **Category:** Game Feedback\ **Created:** [August 28, 2020, 10:31am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386 "2020-08-28T10:31:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 8:22am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/41 "2020-08-31T08:22:31Z")
Could be, the devs are investigating the Dante at the moment. Hopefully if it turns out to be something to do with direct fire damage in general it will be taken care of. It takes times but eventually those bugs get squashed - have you noticed that the over-shredding bug is gone? > [@Saph](#): > > The Dante NEEDS to do pretty extreme damage given that its range is so short that it’s basically a melee weapon. The problem is that the Dante’s targeting is buggy as \*\*\*\* so that half the time that you fire it it does zero damage to targets supposedly in its cone. Dante can be used effectively at +10 tiles (it’s ER is 12). More than an insta-killer or extreme damage dealer, it’s primarily intended as an area denial weapon. When aiming, look at the health bar of the target: if any portion of it is white, it will be hit, if not, not. (Right now if it will be hit there is a good chance it will die, or have all of its limbs disabled.) I wish the aiming worked like Rage Burst does now, so you aim at a target, not at a space. The thing is, something like Dante and the tactical opportunities it offers usually don’t make a lot of sense if you can just bombard the enemies from across the map 🙂 > [@Saph](#): > > re: Boom Blast, I’d probably suggest making it more like Quick Aim – it affects ONE explosive attack. Then make it 3 APs instead of 5, and make it only usable once per turn. Here is mine 😉: > [@Let's not Nerf - let's Evolve!](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/lets-not-nerf-lets-evolve/11165/15): > > Do you mean, for example, reducing AoE from current 3.5 tiles to 3 or to 2.5? Personally, I’m warming up to this idea because in Phoenix Point there is no drop off in damage the further the target is from the explosion. The way blast damage works is that each body part that gets hit by the explosion receives the same damage, regardless of distance from it - so it comes down do the angle at which the target is to the explosion and whether there are any obstacles between the two. This is what ma… ---
**Author:** ![Saph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c57346/32.png) [@Saph](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Saph)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 8:28am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/42 "2020-08-31T08:28:40Z")
> [@VOLAND](#): > > Dante can be used effectively at +10 tiles (it’s ER is 12). More than an insta-killer or extreme damage dealer, it’s primarily intended as an area denial weapon. Area denial isn’t very useful in most missions, honestly, so if that’s the primary use of the Dante then it’s probably going to be fairly lackluster. Most missions in PP require you to advance, which you can’t do if the space between you and the enemies is on fire. ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 8:34am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/43 "2020-08-31T08:34:22Z")
> [@VOLAND](#): > > have you noticed that the over-shredding bug is gone? Yes and I like it, before an AR burst could sometimes shred up to the double value that should be possible, pretty imba. Edit: BTW, we can talk about balancing the whole day, but actually it feels a bit useless as the devs throw the next OP things at us with the every new DLC. Holy shit, these ancient weapon values are completely out of anything we had before in this game. ---
**Author:** ![drages](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/drages/32/3432_2.png) [@drages](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/drages)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 8:42am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/44 "2020-08-31T08:42:24Z")
It’s nice to see something better improved at new tech to be honest. As I said before somewhere, those weapons should be unique ones to get from hard missions rather then the unnecessary and very annoying capture/defend/mine/manufacture complex. ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 8:47am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/45 "2020-08-31T08:47:19Z")
If unique or not, they should be a bit more balanced and not that much better in any aspect as their conventional counter parts. (Edit: see the unique living weapons, the AR and MG, for me they are pretty nice balanced compared to their counterparts and almost a good alternative, but not a nobrainer like the new ancient weapons). Overall I like the idea how they implement it with mining and producing, it feels more startegicaly than just get something unique by missions (this always feels for me more RPG like, not bad but should not be to much). My personal opinion, of course 😉 ---
**Author:** ![drages](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/drages/32/3432_2.png) [@drages](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/drages)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:06am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/46 "2020-08-31T09:06:20Z")
This game is already full of “not that much better in any aspect as their conventional counter parts”… I was not so happy to use same laser rifle I got from first days for whole game. Balancing is another thing. As unique I tried to say “get 1 only and can’t manufacture”. Living weapons are little DLC which you can get very early too… There should be some “tier” at some point. This is very weak at PP. ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:20am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/47 "2020-08-31T09:20:44Z")
> [@drages](#): > > There should be some “tier” at some point. This is very weak at PP. I explicitly like that there is more sidegrade than upgrade in the game, alternative solutions for different approaches. In PP the upgrading, the ‘tiers’, are much more founded in the open and powerful skillset. If you also have upgraded and plain better weapons in the game then you have to balance the whole shit even more. But as I said before, my personal opinion, I can also understand that many people dislike this and miss a system that is more going the way of also upgrading your tools. ---
**Author:** ![drages](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/drages/32/3432_2.png) [@drages](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/drages)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:35am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/48 "2020-08-31T09:35:55Z")
I am not against different options, I try to tell, those different options should have tiers. I like lasers but there is totally no update for lasers… whole game… NY weapons get a slight one and I like my sniper. But why does Deceptor not get that improved AP tech version? Skill set is nice of course, but when you want to train your newbies at battlefield or sending them to a mission with the same weapons from early game at mid-late game, It’s suicide. So remember old xcom days, or new ones… even your new soldier sucks, they can survive better at least with better tech, armor and weapons… As weapons can’t kill fast enough and your armor can’t save you at 2. bullet AND enemies get buffs again and again, you can balance this as you said with good soldiers but if this game is ok with only 6-7 soldiers. I always played my x-com style games with only one squad. But here you need more trasport planes and more soldiers to do other stuff. At other X-com games, you can chill for a while just let time pass by freely… Now you should always do something. For factions, for pandoras, for DLC 1 and DLC 2 story missions, for defenses, for resources… Resources… It’s so bad now, as most of the missions just don’t give you any resources, I got times that I don’t have resources for reloading my crew… I can’t imagine to make weapons/armors/stuff for a second squad… On paper and for hardcore players, this could be not a big deal even more enjoyable… but I am not legend class player… I can say hero for this game… but enjoyable hero… harder tactical but relaxing strategic layer player. RPG elements are nice but every RPG is about to have a better and better character and gear. If you put RPG elements and don’t give you something better in return, the problem starts for most of the player base. It became a bit out of topic and you got what I mean. I hope :). ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:39am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/49 "2020-08-31T09:39:29Z")
> [@drages](#): > > It became a bit out of topic and you got what I mean. I hope :). Sure, it is your opinion and I can fully accepted it. All fine 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![drages](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/drages/32/3432_2.png) [@drages](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/drages)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:42am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/50 "2020-08-31T09:42:15Z")
Thx! So we need a DLC without any mission which only improves our arsenal. Does new weapons got a minigun version? I saw explosive, melee, crossbow, shotgun and sniper. What is the 6.? ---
**Author:** ![jj482b](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/jj482b/32/2073_2.png) [@jj482b](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/jj482b)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:49am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/51 "2020-08-31T09:49:44Z")
why use Deceptor then? its not that different to a shotgun, with same accuracy… and you can use Shotguns for 1 less AP… ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:52am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/52 "2020-08-31T09:52:01Z")
> [@drages](#): > > So we need a DLC without any mission which only improves our arsenal. Does new weapons got a minigun version? I saw explosive, melee, crossbow, shotgun and sniper. What is the 6.? Sadly not, the 6th one is also a melee weapon with light AOE effect and even more brutal than the first one. That said, no assault rifle, no PDW (but we have Gogon Eye-A 😉 ), no MG, no turret, no Priest weapon. ---
**Author:** ![drages](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/drages/32/3432_2.png) [@drages](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/drages)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:54am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/53 "2020-08-31T09:54:08Z")
I say that… At PP someone got a very big “minigunphobia” … They just fear that a better minigun will kill this game for good with no balancing chance… If they won’t change this, modding will be final hope… So only sniper is good for my playstyle… this is sadly very limited and a second melee weapon is a bad choice. ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 9:56am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/54 "2020-08-31T09:56:54Z")
> [@jj482b](#): > > why use Deceptor then? its not that different to a shotgun, with same accuracy… and you can use Shotguns for 1 less AP… With Berserkers Adrenalin Rush AP cost doesn’t matter 😉 ---
**Author:** ![jj482b](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/jj482b/32/2073_2.png) [@jj482b](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/jj482b)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 10:00am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/55 "2020-08-31T10:00:56Z")
Still, not better than shotgun… just same… Personally, i think Deceptor needs to get some accuracy boost… not much… but some… (let say to 15 range, so its slightly longer range than shotguns at least…) ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 10:08am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/56 "2020-08-31T10:08:41Z")
Ehm, no? Deceptor has 12 \* 35 + 2 shred per bullet, Iconoclast has 10 \* 35 without any shred. ---
**Author:** ![jj482b](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/jj482b/32/2073_2.png) [@jj482b](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/jj482b)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 10:09am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/57 "2020-08-31T10:09:09Z")
and then there is a Harrover… ---
**Author:** ![MadSkunky](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/madskunky/32/2650_2.png) [@MadSkunky](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/MadSkunky)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 10:12am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/58 "2020-08-31T10:12:52Z")
… with 8 \* 35 and yes, it has 8 shred per bullet, but this is applied at one single shot and so has no effect for this shot. The Deceptor burst profits from its own shred, every subsequent bullet deals more damage if you hit the same part … BTW, Iconiclasts range is now at 6, Deceptor at 11. ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/59 "2020-08-31T11:38:20Z")
> [@MadSkunky](#): > > with 8 \* 35 and yes, it has 8 shred per bullet, but this is applied at one single shot and so has no effect for this shot. Actually, for shred purposes the pellets hit the target one after another, not simultaneously, so there is benefit from the shredding in the first shot. But still, it’s less damage than what you can do with a Deceptor, especially once you factor in buffs to damage from Bloodlust and Strongman. It’s true that the same buffs can be applied to Harrower, it’s just that they make armor and the bigger shred less important. Also, because of the 50% malus to accuracy from Adrenaline Rush, with a shotgun you need to stand in an adjacent tile to the target to aim at it… Weird science of Terminator Builds… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2020, 11:47am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386/60 "2020-08-31T11:47:28Z")
> [@jj482b](#): > > Personally, i think Deceptor needs to get some accuracy boost… not much… but some… (let say to 15 range, so its slightly longer range than shotguns at least…) What do you think of the idea of giving HA legs Chiron’s Stability Stance, costing 1 AP to enter it and 1 AP to leave it, no movement while in the stance and +50% to accuracy? [Previous page](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386.md?page=2) [Next page](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/the-deceptor-machine-gun-is-awful/11386.md?page=4)