Some clarifications on the Epic deal


#42

I hope you’re not using amd or intel chipsets, cisco routers, apple, microsoft or android products, google, facebook or any other social media.


#43

So much shit flying around! I’m here for the GAME and I really dont give a about launcher steam-gog-whatelse. They got some more money for develpment? That’s great! DRM-free, free DLC… Nice! What else do you want? An applepie? Steam is not everything. Monopoly killing. I backed this game and I will play this game on any distribution platform.
Chinese spying software? Oh my! Throw away your google and facebook accounts because it’s too late!


#44

It is. But I’m not backing them. My money already went to Snapshot through xsolla… Full stop. End of my problem. And that is also situation for all fig backers and pre-ordering customers. If they are against EPIC then they don’t have to pay there anything.


#45

I backed this game a year ago, when Gollop personally stated it would be on Steam and Gog. Now that they used my money to develop this game, they switch platforms and I will not be able to play it at all because in the country where I’m working, Phoenix Point is region-locked, as it is in several other countries. I don’t even get the choice of refund or use Epic. Only a refund or wait another year. I’d like interest back with my refund. Snapshot should have worked this out. It’s dishonest and bad business practice.


#46

Ulysses if you want a refund why not wait for your epic key and sell that then when your steam/gog key comes through sell that as well you will probably get more money doing that than getting a refund?


#47

As backer for the Luxury Edition, I sure won’t be using Epic just because they paid you more than the rest of the backers. As a Bulgarian who played XCOM Enemy Unknown back in the 90s when Eastern Europe was going through misery and savage capitalism, I painfully know how difficult it is to find some money to enjoy your hobby.

Julian, your company is in Bulgaria, you pay only 10% flat income tax and probably little to no corporate tax. The social security payments also are relatively low here for companies. You will get no sympathy about needing more money for hiring people and outsourcing. To me it simply sounds as pure mismanagement.

Now to my concerns which will make me request a refund or not :

  • I am not acquainted with the Epic launcher and from the looks of it, it does not support mods or modding. How do you plan to support modding from day 1 ? Using the Nexus and relying on players to manually upload and install any mods ? Creating a separate modding launcher that can automatically download mods ? Modding is truly the biggest problem when switching platforms on PC.
  • How do you plan to properly compensate people who will never use that Epic store key ? When the game launches on other platforms it might be more refined after a few patches, but it will probably be discounted to entice newcomers. If they like it they may buy the DLC as well.

However, if I (or any other backer) request a refund and get my 50 USD back, not only will I be able to buy the game at a discount on Steam/ GOG, I will also have a lot of cash to spare for the DLC.

Simply put, the refund is not enough and I am not even accounting for inflation between 2017 and 2021. You can not promise whether the game will still be at full price a year later, nor whether you will actually lower the base price as some other studios have done in the past when sales were lower than expected.

You will need to either promise lifetime DLC + Expansion access for all backers or provide a refund + goodwill gesture.

Those are my two sticking points, Modding access and value for staying a backer.


#48

Judging from the reaction towards the Epic store, what will be the chance of someone looking for a Epic store key for any game ?

I would wager the ratio sellers/buyers would be at least 20 to 1.


#49

Doubt it. Don’t forget that people arguing on the forums right now, no matter the “side” they picked, are a vocal minority and i expect most people will either refund or suck it up.

I asked for a refund instead of trying to sell my key simply because it’s not worth it. Refunding was more a matter of principle than monetary needs and reselling the key wouldn’t do anyhting on that front.


#50

Hi 8wayz,

  • I am not acquainted with the Epic launcher and from the looks of it, it does not support mods or modding. How do you plan to support modding from day 1 ? Using the Nexus and relying on players to manually upload and install any mods ? Creating a separate modding launcher that can automatically download mods ? Modding is truly the biggest problem when switching platforms on PC.

We said during our fig campaign that we will support limited modding some time post launch. The Epic launcher will be supporting modding later this year, along with many other features. You can check out their public roadmap here.

  • How do you plan to properly compensate people who will never use that Epic store key ? When the game launches on other platforms it might be more refined after a few patches, but it will probably be discounted to entice newcomers. If they like it they may buy the DLC as well.

Backers will get the DLC for free for one year. We are offering one years free DLC, which will include at least 3 DLC packs. This will be available for all our backers on Steam or Gog one year after launch.


#51

Hi Julian,

What about backers from non supported countries (ie. supported by Steam, but not by Epic), such as @Ulysses above? Should they wait for a year?


#52

Hi Julian and thank you for taking the time to reply ! :slight_smile:

Any chance you can share some of the Snapshot Games roadmap concerning modding ? The DLC would not be worth much if it can not be used by modders after launch to expand the game in various directions.

The way you have set up the DLC release plan simply makes it better to get a refund and then buy everything at a discount one year after the launch. Those with higher pledges will be actually saving some money.

As it stands, there is not much value in remaining a backer. Do you plan to make a better offer to the higher tier or all backers to make it worth their while to remain on board ?


#53

You know you get the year of DLCs for free if you are a backer, right?

Base game is $40 and lets add at least $10 per 3 certain DLCs - that means you might have to pay $70 or more to match the content of your pledge + the price chitting/gunDLC. If you pledged more than that then I have to ask: how did you expect to get more value from your $70+ pledge then buying a game on launch for $40?


#54

By giving up some of the other things. For example my $95 pledge ($105 for non-early backers) got me things like a physical copy of the art and stories.

So if the game is $40, each of the big DLCs are 10-15, and the armor/weapons are $5 that’s only $35-50 for DLC, saving me $0-15. At which point I would just wait for a sale and save even more.

Also this doesn’t touch on inflation and value lost on my money during that year or if the cost drops once coming to Steam (or soon after) due to the game already being a year old.


#55

Thinking this way there was no value in becoming a backer. You can always wait 10 years and get game and all it’s expansions for $5.


#56

That’s what I generally do with most games, with so many good games out there I know that if I wait long enough then something that I want to play will eventually go cheap. I dread to think how much I’ve actually spent on steam, but I don’t think there’s many games where I’ve paid more than a tenner.


#57

That depends. People became backers because they supported the initial plan for the game (including distribution offered). Likewise asking for a refund is because people either feel betrayed or don’t want to support the now offered method.

If one already has to wait an extra year AFTER release, what’s waiting a bit longer for a sale? If one strongly enough disagrees with what was done then what’s giving up some non-game goodies to make a point AND save some money? Someone who only payed for the most basic package isn’t likely to save money until the game and DLC gets a rather hefty discount, but any of the upgraded packages are likely to already save money by the time it hits Steam.


#58

I’m not personally too fussed about the Epic store, but what does concern me is that I was not emailed about the change. I just saw it on gaming news sites. Is there some setting I am lacking that would give me update emails? I have been getting emails about the latest builds to download, but that’s all.


#59

If you can private message me with your email address I will gladly check it from our end. An email was sent to all customers on Tuesday


#60

For some reason, gmail auto-sorted it into the promotions folder (that I pretty much never check, almost making it a spam folder). Every other email I received from Snapshot/XSolla got routed in my inbox except this one. Maybe the same happened to you.


#61

I found it in spam folder. :wink: