Some clarifications on the Epic deal


#1

There has been, understandably, a lot of concerns about the Epic Games deal. So for sake of clarification I will explain what is involved for existing backers of Phoenix Point and what it means for the future.

  1. Phoenix Point will be DRM free. The Epic store client does not require an ‘always on’ internet connection. This means that you can download the game and play it, even if you uninstall the Epic client. (You will need to use the client to update the game, however)

  2. You will get an Epic Store key to activate and download the game. You don’t need to give Epic any financial information.

  3. After the year’s exclusivity on the Epic store, you will get Steam key or gog key in addition to your Epic key which will include all DLC content up to that point.

  4. At the time of launch, Epic should support the two main features that we need - cloud saves and achievements.

  5. We have at least 3 major DLC packs planned for the first year of release, along with 3 or more free content updates. Existing backers will get these for free.

  6. The Epic store deal does help with the game. It will be a better quality product and it will have more content sooner after release. It helps to secure our studio and the jobs of our employees for a long time ahead.


So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?
So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?
So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?
#2

“After the year’s exclusivity on the Epic store, you will get Steam key or gog key in addition to your Epic key which will include all DLC content up to that point.”

Thats all we need to hear, and that should’ve been clarified immediately after announcing EGS deal.


#3

Pardon me if this is a bit too forward, but Julian, I have to ask–can you give us even vague descriptions of the nature of the deal Epic was offering? I heard terms like “sales guarantee” mentioned on the Discord, and I had to ask Reddit folks what that meant–it apparently meant much more financial security? While it’s disappointing to have to wait another year for a non-Epic chance to play the full game, I’d at least like to know you guys are getting your money’s worth. If you have to make a deal with the devil, it’s a small comfort to know that the devil paid dearly for the privilege.


#4

UV said this about the amount, which helps understanding the situation somewhat:


#5

Yeah, I’ve been mentioning that a lot, I put a low estimate at over a million dollars. But I was wondering if Julian could offer something more specific, like “how far” in the black–just barely breaking even, or making a significant profit even after maximum refunds? If the latter, that’s a huge amount of money for Tencent to throw around…as I suspect they can.


#6

Hello Julian, thanks for posting here.

Probably my main concern and the questions that I most interested:

Was not possible to have a deal like the case with Metro exodus? where the people that preordered the game on Steam could play it on Steam.


#7

Don’t hold your breath awaiting a reasoned response, kind sir. We peasants are unworthy of being included in the process. Our role is to surrender resources to Snapshot and keep our mouths shut. The number one enemy of progress is questions, after all. finding-my-resources


#8

I fully understand this and you have to look out for your company, but you also need to understand that you have burned bridges with your fans/customers. We backed you early and now we are forced to either switch platforms or wait an additional year on top of any delays.

This move is going to make it harder for future devs. Hell it is likely to hurt your sales in the long term. I know I’ll be requesting a refund (limited edition backer here), won’t be buying the game until it gets a steep discount on Steam (if I choose to buy at all), and won’t be trusting Snapshot Games with preorders going forward. In my eyes this has ruined your reputation.


#10

I am in full agreement with you.


#11

Is BB4 still going ahead?


#12

+1. This harms your reputation which is key to long term success.

No deal should have been made without grandfathering existing backers into their chosen platform. Asking us to wait a year longer than folks willing to use Epic is absolutely criminal.


#13

Honestly, it sounds like you are having issues with managing your budgets and feature creeps if you really felt it was required to take the deal with the devil. If that really is so, you are looking at a short term beneift that won’t help in the long run unless you change things and that also will impact negatively on you in the long run because of loss of customer trust.


#14

My guess is that for Julian, Phoenix Point is THE game he always wanted to make, a labour of love, a project of passion, so on. OGXcom, for all its qualities, had an atrocious interface, and the graphics don’t hold up now and won’t attract newer generations. Heck, I’m not from those newer generations, and even for me OGXcom is a tough pillow to swallow.

So, that said, Phoenix Point is a game that won’t be released and done for, it will be constantly updated and DLC’ed. More factions, units, weapons, monsters, underwater missions, maybe in a far future even taking the fight to the aliens homeworld. A constantly updated project means it won’t suffer in the long run. As for alienating the current backers… Well, only Snapshot can say how many people will ask for refunds, and may be even a tiny percentage (1%, 2%?) When Linux support was droped, there was also a very bright uproar, but in the end there were only a pair of a hundred Linux users, from the hundreds of thousands overall, supporting the game


#15

#3 is what I was waiting for… so long as I’m getting my GoG key with all of the DLC the Epic key comes with, you can keep my $20, so congratulations on that.

That said, this is still the last time I do business with Snapshot games. The package you sold me did NOT say anything about having to wait an extra year as punishment for being uninterested in doing business with the worst digital content distributor currently in the market. TO THIS DAY the information provided on your now-duplicitous Fig campaign page advertises distribution via either GoG or Steam, so the bottom line is your company has no reservations about fundamentally altering the terms of the agreements they enter into with their customers AFTER payment is accepted. If you’ll pull that crap with this, you’ll pull it with anything.

Now, if you wanted to keep my business beyond this release, you would have included the following:

  1. Those individuals who purchased Phoenix Point prior to this change will be allowed to receive their games via GoG and Steam upon release, so as to ensure 100% compliance with the advertised terms of their original purchase.

#16

I totally agree with you Aknazer.
I was looking forward for Steam Workshop mods and not another bug ridden spying Launcher.

I have never preordered a game until Phoenix Point came along. After the first good impression regarding crowdfunding I also preordered Battletech, Phantom Doctrine, MTYZ, Anno 1800, Mechwarrior 5 Mercenaries and Warcraft 3 Reforged. I might rethink that now.

I also wanted to upgrade my pledge and now I’m glad that I couldn’t.

Good luck Mr. Gollop and Snapshot Games, see you in 1,5 years.


#17

None of this changes the fact you are retracting on a promise you made at the start of your funding. I don’t want this on EPIC, I want it on steam and that is what you promised. You are now holding hostage a game I backed you on because of my love for your previous games.

The way EPIC is trying to dominate the market is through anti-consumer practices and bribery. Oh yes, I am not surprised you are offering refunds because EPIC will reimburse you for those ‘lost sales’ this isn’t a move of the heart but one that costs you nothing! I will be refunding my money knowing full well it is a symbolic gesture. If I actually find your game worth buying in a few years after a massive discount and bugs patched out. I am willing to lose out on my backer benefits for a better product at a worthwhile price down the road…if it is actually worth anything come that time. Backer build three has not inspired me so far.


#18

While I understand that Epic deal must be very alluring for a company’s first venture, it’s also true that Kickstarter promise is totally letdown in a game-breaking way. It’s not a good way to start a business that also break confidence like this.

It proves my misgivings to Kickstarter, I had stopped backing after the Unsung Story debacle and this reaffirmed that it was a good idea to wait till the final product is out. Epic Store is genuinely anti-consumer and any game that launches without customer reviews is a no go in my book.

I’ll be waiting for the Steam launch, better to wait than fund the deterioration of PC games market.


#19

Julian, that is the absolute bare minimum you could do.
You’re a backstabber and so is your company, pure and simple.
“It will help us make the game better.” Yeah, we’ve heard that one a half dozen times now by other developers crying up the same river.
Julian, a lot of people here, me included, have for many years, held you in very high regard. Now you pull this shit. We don’t want to hear your nonsense about “it’ll give us more funding to make the game better.” Sure it will. They must have offered you guys a lot of guaranteed quid to compensate for the massive loss in initial sales from it not being on actually legitimate platforms.
Epic Game Store is a Chinese government asset since 48% of their stock is owned by Tencent.
There is literally nothing Snapshot games can do to improve their PR short of scrapping their stupid Faustian deal immediately and begging for forgiveness. You guys will NEVER have our respect again. Who knows, maybe it’ll be good for you guys financially. But a lot of scummy practices are good financially, like how all of the mortgage companies defrauded the banks and caused 2008 to happen.


#20

Lol. What an argument. Chinese asset is bad, US is good. BTW can you prove it is related to Chinese government and is not private investment? It could change my perspective on the whole thing.

Btw it’s great to speak plural, but it’s not really cool if you’re not the official representative of the group.


#21

Thank you for the clarification Julian, I for one am very happy with exchanging 3 pieces of what otherwise would have been paid DLC for just playing the game using a 3rd party launcher for a year, you never know over that period I might grow to love the Epic game system after all I hated Steam when I first used it and now I love that.