So what do you think about Phoenix Point being Epic?

#626

I just wish that they could let their previous backers still receive promised keys without any delay. And all new customers could go to Epic exclusivity deal. Well shame that they couldn’t win negotiating such point. I suppose backlash would be definitely lower than it was. It decreases the trust in future “promises” surely. But maybe there won’t be any next fundraising, and they will work on next projects for the money they will have now. I will look forward for any next game in this universe, even if it won’t be Phoenix Point 2. :wink:

To all of you. Have a nice weekend!

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#627

This is the only thing that I believe can really bother people. There’s was an assumption regarding Steam and GOG across the backing campaign, and that assumption was not met. Fair for people to complain;

Here is the irony in all of this: just today, and because of the new The Witness offer in EGS, I saw somene rambling on Facebook about how Epic SPIES and SELLS INFO to CHINA!!! Just going to that particular user’s profile, in under thirty seconds I could see his photos, name, birthday, where he studied, and with a bit more research so much more info would be available…

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#628

@samshell This is one reason why you NEVER EVER should use your Facebook or whatever Account to authenticate at someone else! You give them so much access to your personal data.

@Vathar Epic doesn’t only suck because of missing features. The App itself sucks hard, here the comparison of Steam and Epic App. Do you see the difference? WTF is the epic app doing to consume that much cpu? See Steam, nothing, and that’s what I excpet an app is doing when I just watch my Library!
The Epic Store is pure spyware, it searches your complete PC, looks at your Steam library and friends and saves it on your PC, maybe it will be send to them. (Yes I know, other companies still do the same, that doesn’t makes it better.)

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#629

I see it consumes CPU power, but can you prove that it is spyware? Maybe it is just badly written code? If it was even spying then I suppose it could do that with the same CPU utilization as Steam have right now. And what it is doing with that complete PC search? If it only looks for Steam friend list then I have nothing to worry about, actually I don’t have real friends out there. :wink:

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#630

https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoint/comments/b0rxdq/epic_game_store_spyware_tracking_and_you/
Someone has made the work to track all stuff the epic launcher is searching on your pc.
If you wanna prove it on your own: Download the Microsoft Sysinternals Suite (its free) and start the “Procmon”, you can filter by application and see what and where it is reading or writing.

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#631

I have read that. Guy is talking he is an amateur. So I won’t follow too much that thread if he want to create some theories. BUT of course he can be right. I just need a proof. :wink:

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#632

I have no love for Epic but have to disagree with that. Any idiot can fire procmon and get scared by what they see. A diagnostic tool is worthless if you have no skill to interpret it. Using procmon without background knowledge is as useless as doing any medical test (X-Ray, MRI) without medical training.

I remember reading the thread on the day snapshot announced their deal and the guy who wrote this was the first to admit he doesn’t know much about it.

Just because an argument should comfort my point of view doesn’t mean I should take it at face value, and there have been a fair amount of apparently neutral parties who came to refute what this guy said and pointed out that this is mostly mis-interpretation of what procmon outputs or misunderstanding of normal software process.

The fact is that guy fell face first into confirmation bias. He started his analysis with the assumption that Epic was spyware and tried to find arguments comforting his hypothesis instead of trying to contradict it.

He could have used another launcher like Steam as a reference to see what a supposedly spyware free software does, but instead he dove headfirst into his own theory and focused on facts that confirmed it. That’s the kind of reasoning that produces antivaxxers.

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#633

@Vathar
I disagree with you. An App like a gamelauncher that is reading my whole PC is called spyware!

I took the time to validate what steam and epic launcher are doing, and you can see, steam is with 68 entries and mostly in their own directory no problem, the epic launcher has 42.000! entries. If it would be 100 or maybe 1000, okay, but 42.000! WTF!!!
I’m IT Professional, not specialized in security but this is can truely be considered as spyware!

EDIT: To be fair to both, this was just a snapshot of a few minutes, if you really want to see what’s going on you have to run the procmon for a longer time. And I’m running steam on my PC and Epic on a VM so both have not the same source to search. It is really hard to say what is needed to run such a programm and what is a feature to increase the usability for the users and what is just collecting of data for whatever reasons (marketing…).

EDIT 2:


Here another guy says the only thing is steam to worry about, epic just confirmed they would read the data but don’t use it (maybe for now).

So, conclusion, we don’t really now. The fact that is consuming that much cpu if its open is just suspicious.

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#634

@Vathar

I disagree with you. Steam is nonetheless spyware.
You can choose whom you trust more. Some guys from USA or some guys from China. Both are not trustworthy in my opinion.

So I was going for GOG. This is not possible anymore.

I can only repeat myself: Backer investment may be a complete failure like this game. This is how backing works. You spend money and may not get anything in return.

It is your risk to trust the developers that they don’t do anything you don’t like.

At the moment they say that the game will be available on GOG at some point.
This could be true. But there maybe events that prevent that. As there were with the alpha builds. Maybe Epic will grant them more money if this game stays Epic.

Maybe Steam would try to grant them even more if they are a Steam exclusive.

I don’t know the future but I know that Snapshot did change their strategie once and they might do that again in the future.

As a backer the only thing I have is the trust. I have the right to be angry, I have the right to tell them.

They have the right to just ignore the complaint and go on with their way.
But every action will have consequences in the long run. Not only for me but for others as well who are watching how this matter is handled.

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#635

I’m bored and feeling rather argumentative tonight, so at the risk of beating a dead horse with my particular sideways purple pool noodle, I’ll address those points.

This is the main problem for me. As I’ve no doubt made abundantly clear in earlier posts, I’m deadly serious about not putting up with internet DRM–to the point of walking away from Steam in 2012 or 2013, cold turkey–and as such have grown rather accustomed to the industry treating me like a second class citizen. Because of this long history of being crapped on by the entertainment industry, first with binary blobs doing shady stuff and later being told that my money’s not green enough for AAAs, I’m eager to throw cash at companies that take me seriously and also don’t react well to being told (again) to go to the back of the queue. With Phoenix Point, these two things collided.

  • Snapshot is not caring about customer base

I think they’re reasonably doing the best they can given the circumstances by offering refunds to those that want them and a bonus rain check to those willing to stick it out for a year. But since the deal I signed on for has already changed once, that doesn’t provide great confidence that it won’t happen again. Let’s be honest here, neither the original Fig/preorder distribution options nor the post-deal compromise agreement were any kind of binding contract so all we really have to work with is Julian pinky swearing that he won’t pull the rug out a second time in exchange for another great big bag of Fortnite tokens.

  • Fundraisers were used by Snapshot to catch bigger fish

Crowdfund campaigns are rarely the only source of financing, and often aren’t even one of the biggest for a given project. So I highly doubt that PP backers got taken advantage of like this. That doesn’t mean that sending them to the back of the queue was a good idea, though.

  • I’m lazy and I don’t want click another icon on my desktop

I personally think game launcher clients are the devil’s music and download and run everything standalone, so I’m ambivalent on this point. Most of the complainers probably already have every shitty middleware under the sun already installed and doing who knows what, they’ve just not gone looking for all the stuff that Medal of Dutyfield silently installs. Cynical? Of course! But this isn’t my first rodeo.

  • Exclusivity is bad for gaming industry

Generally agreed, but most of the exclusivity was already here. That various people on this and other forums have attempted to challenge my assertion that Steam has a vise grip on the industry by posting a bunch of games that require a Steam account to download and install only goes to prove my point.

If anything, the war between Valve and Epic might break up the AAA publisher/distributor cartel and get all the games on all the platforms, which would be nice. I learned a long time ago that you don’t stand off a big angry gorilla with a few mice singing catchy ditties about the power of friendship, you find another big angry gorilla to throw down. So I don’t actually have much of a problem with the EGS drama llama beyond individual developers promising A and delivering B.

And in the case of consoles, that oft cited example of the badness of exclusive deals, Microsoft and especially Sony have actually used that dominant position to push back on a lot of the bad ideas that publishers have successfully foisted on PC gamers. When’s the last time you saw a used PC games section of the local game store, felt confident in buying a boxed title to bring up to your family’s weekend cabin in the sticks where there’s no Internet, or weren’t concerned that your shiny new launch title would be a buggy mess until a year from now when the final major usability patch drops along with the new Super Special Edition including all the DLC for the same price you paid at launch? It would seem that there are some advantages to having one of the biggest, baddest, most psychotic corporate gorillas in one’s corner.

edit: In total fairness to Valve, it must be noted that they’ve done some of this beneficial pushing as well. They killed activation limits, contained the spread of phone-home requirements, and gave small developers a chance to be seen. My beef with the industry’s tendency to only work with Steam should not be viewed as a blanket repudiation of everything that Valve has done, but as an acknowledgement that the world rarely operates in black and white.

  • Epic Store sucks big time

No argument there, but it’s early days and they’re probably doing the “ship the beta and let the early-adopter guinea pigs give us some free QA work” that’s so popular these days. And they do have a plan for making it better.

  • Epic Store is used to spy gamers

Well it’s been established that the EGS client was grepping the hell out of user data; the developer even admitted to it. I’ve worked both with and for enough internet-centric companies enough to not trust them, not so much because they’re explicitly malicious but because they often have a dangerous combination of arrogance toward customers and a culture that strongly favors doing it fast over doing it right. So I’ll freely admit that this debacle can probably be chalked up to bad code from bad developers with a bad budget and schedule demands, but that doesn’t make me any more likely to trust them. Or Valve, or even GOG for that matter. And I sure as hell don’t trust the social media companies–they’re the worst of all. If I stick with my preorder, EGS will almost certainly live in a VM or on another system that I don’t care about. We have the technology…

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#636

Try this one instead:

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#637
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#638

It pisses me off, I’d prefer not to have to download various stores to play games, however I’m not going to cry about it, there are much more concerning things in life like war, famine and Trump.

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#639

Well I would probably get more pissed of on switch to Epic Games Store. :smiley: But well I don’t live in US and consider politicians in my country far worse than mr Trump. :wink:

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#640

If that is true and not just related to a problem with your computer or an update that is concerning.

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#641

I don’t live in the US either:) Not being entirely serious just pointing out that this is getting a bit silly.

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#642

I’m currently downloading Phoenix point and it’s using 1.2% of my cpu I’d Imagine the 1.2 is because I’m downloading something get your computer checked out.

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#643

To me, the “promise” was not about the medium through which I play Phoenix Point.

The promise was Phoenix Point itself - an X-COM game for the current-day world, that leverages Gollop’s simulationist approach to turn-based combat with the aid of modern technology. One with a post-apolayptic horror theme and lovecraftian abominations the size of oil rigs, at that. Nothing about the one-year Epic exclusivity has changed that, as far as I can tell (except, possibly, by giving Gollop and Snapshot more resources to work with).

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#644

Careful, your Trump Derangement Syndrome is showing.

I can think of far worse things than an increasing (some might say booming) economy, historically low unemployment, noticeably reduced taxes, attempting immigration reform (secure the boarder but also fix the system to make it easier for qualified people to immigrate), etc. He might be brash but unlike the last whiner-in-chief, he actually gets things done.

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closed #646
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