# Phoenix Point v. Cthulhu 1.6 - 30th of July **URL:** \ **Category:** Phoenix Point\ **Created:** [July 21, 2020, 1:01pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036 "2020-07-21T13:01:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![PradBitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PradBitt](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/PradBitt)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/143 "2020-08-02T19:42:31Z")
- Boom Blast: Is there a hard issue with it? It’s not the skill that will keep your chain going, since explosives, even if powerfull, are not instagib weapons. That being said it does not hurt to give RC that direct fire weapon condition. - Onslaught: It should have a hard limit of one effect per soldier. Otherwise it turns squad into a Flash superhero with a band of cheerleaders. - Frenzy: It’s definitelly extremely good skill, especially priest’s Frenzy through head mutation (no brainer AoE buff, you constantly pop up). For starters speed buffs shouldn’t stack. Secondly devs need to think, if such big increase of mobility is really required (it makes positioning trivial). We could surely get away with lesser bonus (especially for that AoE frenzy), and /or some drawbacks like disoriented (though it would make AoE version too tedious to use), or some withdrawal effects (for example, when it ends you get -1AP for a round). - Bloodlust: Reduce speed bonus (with no stacking) add “Melee” word and it’s somewhat fixed 😛. Getting angry does not make bullets hit harder after all. ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/144 "2020-08-02T20:38:57Z")
> [@opheophe](#): > > Change the skill so that it’s still really useful but limit it so that it’s not a terminator skill Isn’t that exactly what we are discussing here? What wouldn’t this version of RC allow that the current version does and that you would miss? ---
**Author:** ![opheophe](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/opheophe/32/3341_2.png) [@opheophe](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/opheophe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 9:43pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/145 "2020-08-02T21:43:04Z")
By nerfing dash you are already nerfing RC. Don’t start with the nerf stick on every single aspect of the game that enables you to counter the inherent flaws in the game. The biggest problem is that you pretty much have to use RC to handle some scenarios. Nerfing the skill before those scenarios are addressed is a bad way to go. The suggested versions of RC does not allow you to chain kills of weaker enemies; therefore the suggestion takes away the tools to handle what the game throws at you fairly often. In some situations you can take out several mobs with the combo, that’s true, and in other situations you can’t. That’s how most games work. 1AP pistols are OP when it comes to killing worms; with proper skill combos a sniper can kill… 8 worms in a round? Perhaps more… but sometimes letting skills be strong isn’t a bad thing. As long as two chirons can actually fire 8 worms on top of your group in one round giving the players the tools to handle it isn’t a bad thing. Same with RC; we nerf dash, we nerf RC, we nerf movement, we nerf nerf nerf; but atm we hardly address the situation that forces you to use that skill. Some combos are strong; snipers firing at max distance where enemies hardly can fire back is a solid tactic; should that be nerfed as well? A common way of reasoning atm is “when I fight with my x4 sniper squad everything gets killed by snipers, therefore snipers should be nerfed”. Assaults run up close to enemies, if you don’t clear fairly well and if they can’t run away to cover they are dead. By nerfing dash and nerfing RC you are removing two of the key elements that makes assaults into assaults. ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2020, 10:59pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/146 "2020-08-02T22:59:08Z")
> [@PradBitt](#): > > Onslaught: It should have a hard limit of one effect per soldier. Otherwise it turns squad into a Flash superhero with a band of cheerleaders. Yes, it’s basically the same problem the old Rally had but on steroids, and the 10 tile limit is not enough of a safeguard given the mobility that can be achieved. About stacking… I’m not sure, but I have the feeling it’s part of the design philosophy to allows things to stack. Same with this: > [@PradBitt](#): > > add “Melee” word and it’s somewhat fixed 😛. Getting angry does not make bullets hit harder after all. There seems to be a no-no on making skills useful only for certain classes, as a design choice. As this is supposed to be a high risk high reward skill (and there is no risk given that the damage can be delivered at a very prudent distance), I’m thinking perhaps that an increasing random chance that something bad can happen could be added. So the higher the bonus from Bloodlust and the more actions the Berserkers does, the higher the chance that, e.g. He will go Berserk and attack the nearest character, even if a friendly. This would serve as a detterent for Berserks who indulge in Bloodlust with an SR… ---
**Author:** ![Julian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@Julian](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Julian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 1:41am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/147 "2020-08-03T01:41:24Z")
> [@VOLAND](#): > > > [@PradBitt](#): > > > > Onslaught: It should have a hard limit of one effect per soldier. Otherwise it turns squad into a Flash superhero with a band of cheerleaders. > > Yes, it’s basically the same problem the old Rally had but on steroids, and the 10 tile limit is not enough of a safeguard given the mobility that can be achieved. But is this one in particular a _problem_ though? Onslaught is 3 Will and net zero AP gain. You transfer 2 AP from one soldier to another. Is there ACTUALLY a problem with one soldier eating all the AP? Every ally can only use it once anyway. ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 7:40am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/148 "2020-08-03T07:40:27Z")
> [@Julian](#): > > Is there ACTUALLY a problem with one soldier eating all the AP? You are right, it shouldn’t _usually_ be a problem because there is no net generation of APs, only transfer, and an inefficient at that, because the casters would have to follow the soldier around. Perhaps there could be situations with TBs where this is used to “jump” from one group of enemies to another. (The TB I’m thinking of is Berserker/Assault on Bloodlust and Frenzy (that can be optimized to 68 Speed)). But it might also be a non-issue, especially if something is done about Frenzy and/or Bloodlust. ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 8:07am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/149 "2020-08-03T08:07:31Z")
> [@opheophe](#): > > The biggest problem is that you pretty much have to use RC to handle some scenarios. No, you don’t. There are players playing on Legend who don’t use it. Some have _never_ used it. Many of us play with many self-restrictions so that it can only work as intended (to dispatch a single group of enemies). For example, on my Danforth playthrough on Legend, multiclassing and LVL7 skills were mutually exclusive. And Cthulhu is even easier than Danforth. If you find you need RC to beat the game you have an issue with the difficulty of the game. Many players were finding the game too hard prior to Cthulhu. If you are still finding the game too hard on Cthulhu (that is, that you _need_ the skills to beat the game), post about your experience. It will be valuable to the devs. For the record, I think that enemies spawning too close to objectives (on Haven Defense/Rescue Scavenging) that you mention in another thread is a legitimate complaint, and I have complained about this as well. However, it’s annoying rather than game breaking, given that you can get plenty of recruits in the game (and now some of them incredibly powerful) and you don’t fail Haven Defense missions even if all objectives are killed/destroyed. You just get less XPs, and there are more than plenty of those to go round. > [@opheophe](#): > > The suggested versions of RC does not allow you to chain kills of weaker enemies Of course it does. Kill a weak enemy and you can shoot again. You can even use Quick Aim to do so with a HMG, or a SR. What it doesn’t allow is using weak enemies as AP power pickups to keep going across the map. ---
**Author:** ![PradBitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PradBitt](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/PradBitt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 8:22pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/150 "2020-08-03T20:22:29Z")
> [@VOLAND](#): > > > [@PradBitt](#): > > > > add “Melee” word and it’s somewhat fixed 😛. Getting angry does not make bullets hit harder after all. > > There seems to be a no-no on making skills useful only for certain classes, as a design choice. This was written half-jokingly 😉 For real, the main perpetrator for now is RC. To be precise, it’s ability to generate AP income. Everyone knows this behavior is bad and it should be shut down. Therefore our discussion on how to change it might bring some value. On the other hand skills like Berserker, which do not enable AP generation are sort of other story (for example they work just as well with other sklls, like ARush). If you want to tackle them, it’s fine. However it begs a question, whether Devs think that there’s something to be done with those skills? Because if not, we can sit all month talking how to redesign them, but in the end it’ll be wasted effort. Secondly, problems are best solved one at a time. Don’t take on everything at once, but rather decompose it to little bits and work on them one by one (minding the impact of your changes obviously). ---
**Author:** ![PradBitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PradBitt](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/PradBitt)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 8:46pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/151 "2020-08-03T20:46:48Z")
It’s mainly about principals. It’s great to leverage AP distribution it into ones advantage (for example when other character has AR active, or has better positioning), On it’s own is an OK gameplay feature, but you need to decide if you stay within the tactical shoter boundaries, or do you let yourself venture into magical spells territory. Shouting at the guy and hypeing him up to act faster sounds reasonably believable. Having 5 others cheering him into acting 3-4 faster than normaly does not. ---
**Author:** ![Julian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@Julian](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Julian)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/152 "2020-08-03T23:16:44Z")
With psi powers and space alient mutant squids. We’ve been into magical spells territory since day 1. The real question is: Do you think that granting an entire team transferring their actions to a single target is an interesting tactical choice to be avaialable? My answer is Yes ---
**Author:** ![PradBitt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@PradBitt](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/PradBitt)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 8:07am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/153 "2020-08-04T08:07:39Z")
Its not magic, its called technology. And for this reason we dont have shamans or rituals, but scientists and research labs. And something being an interesting tactical choice does not immediately validate it. Transfering max HP, aim bonus or WP would also be an interesting tactical choice ---
**Author:** ![Pigeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/41988e/32.png) [@Pigeon](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Pigeon)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 6:04pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/154 "2020-08-04T18:04:14Z")
Is there any way you could balance rescue missions, to reduce the chances of the soldiers you’re rescuing getting offed by the end of the second turn? I don’t want it easier, just more balanced. Restarting a mission is not something I like doing and ruins the experience for me and, undoubtly, many other fans of your game ---
**Author:** ![noStas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/nostas/32/2001_2.png) [@noStas](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/noStas)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/155 "2020-08-04T18:14:42Z")
> [@opheophe](#): > > It’s not about difficulty, nor about balance, it’s about poor design. > The game throws you into bad situations you have to be able to handle them. > > The proper answer isn’t “nerf nerf nerf”; the proper answer is “change change add” > > - Change the skill so that it’s still really useful but limit it so that it’s not a terminator skill > - Change the game so that the situations where the original skill was required no longer occurs (in other words, no end game rooms with 2 skylls, 4 chirons and a bunch of arthrons; no enemies spawning on top of you etc) > - Add something new to compensate for the power lost when changing the skill Imo, the current Dev team is not capable / wants to do this. (This is more true than I would like) → Fan nerves and walls of texts on the forum were spent for each changed skill. ---
**Author:** ![Phara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@Phara](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Phara)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 10:35am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/156 "2020-08-05T10:35:53Z")
Didn’t want to create new topic so I decided to write here about one change that has confused me. It was written “Mercy SG3 - increased its damage”. As i do remember the damage was 40 and 8 bullets in the burst. Now it’s damage is 35 and 8 bullets in the burst. Сorrect me if I’m wrong but it does not look like “increased”. ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 10:40am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/157 "2020-08-05T10:40:56Z")
Yep, it’s just a typo in the patch notes. However, the effective range of all shotguns has been increased by 2 (and this is not mentioned in the patch notes), though apparently that was unintended. ---
**Author:** ![Phara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@Phara](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Phara)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 10:45am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/158 "2020-08-05T10:45:16Z")
it might be worth correcting patch notes? are there really not enough questions for the last update? ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 10:52am UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/159 "2020-08-05T10:52:34Z")
@Valygar just to let you know, as this request comes off-topic: > [@Phara](#): > > Didn’t want to create new topic so I decided to write here about one change that has confused me. It was written “Mercy SG3 - increased its damage” > [@VOLAND](#): > > Yep, it’s just a typo in the patch notes. > [@Phara](#): > > it might be worth correcting patch notes? ---
**Author:** ![Phara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@Phara](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Phara)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 12:08pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/160 "2020-08-05T12:08:54Z")
as an option, I can suggest making changes to the adrenaline rush skill so that it does not mix with RC; launch it only if it has not been used during the turn of any other skills. ---
**Author:** ![Phara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/71c47a/32.png) [@Phara](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Phara)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:08pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/161 "2020-08-05T14:08:19Z")
One thing I want to ask - just small option not to show intro video. I’m already hate it. ---
**Author:** ![Valygar](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/valygar/32/2632_2.png) [@Valygar](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Valygar)\ **Post date:** [August 5, 2020, 2:33pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036/162 "2020-08-05T14:33:17Z")
Thanks, fixed. It was also saying that Harrower’s damage was increased so I fixed that as well. All the shotguns damage was lowered from 40 to 35. [Previous page](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036.md?page=7) [Next page](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/phoenix-point-v-cthulhu-1-6-30th-of-july/11036.md?page=9)