# About reducing mobility **URL:** \ **Category:** Game Feedback\ **Created:** [February 27, 2020, 2:52pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574 "2020-02-27T14:52:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Vipre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/838e76/32.png) [@Vipre](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Vipre)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 10:58pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/22 "2020-03-01T22:58:59Z")
> [@Yokes](#): > > 30 tiles per turn is like 10 km/h. With combat gear it would be quite high 10.8 km/h or about a 10 min mile. That’s reasonable I’d think for an unaugmented human. ---
**Author:** ![Yokes](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/yokes/32/310_2.png) [@Yokes](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Yokes)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2020, 11:56pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/23 "2020-03-01T23:56:12Z")
This is speed of trained troops: > **[Loaded march](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loaded_march)** > > A loaded march is a relatively fast march over distance carrying a load. It is both a common military exercise and a civilian activity. > A loaded march is known as a forced foot march in the US Army. Less formally, it is a ruck march in the Canadian Armed Forces and the US Army, a tab in British Army slang, a yomp in Royal Marines slang, stomping in Australian Army slang, and a hump in the slang of the United States Marine Corps. > As a civilian exercise, loaded marching comes under the category o... Something like 6.5 km / h. Now take into consideration that Phoenix Project operatives are not top notch soldiers. But combat is quite fast encounter not prolonged march. That is why I would let them move faster because they are deployed into small combat area and can sprint some distance. Of course there is second argument about size of the maps. 🙂 If they were bigger then I would reconsider changing the cap to be greater. ---
**Author:** ![noStas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/nostas/32/2001_2.png) [@noStas](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/noStas)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/24 "2020-03-02T12:24:05Z")
> [@VOLAND](#): > > Sorry, I don’t think I understand what you mean. This is a concept that provides an opportunity for developers and modders to get away from boring gameplay in order to believe what is happening on the screen. > [3) increase to a stat that can be granted by buffs, so limit damage buffs to +100%, stealth to 85%, accuracy to +50%, electric armor to single use.](https://feedback.phoenixpoint.info/feedback/p/put-a-hard-limit-on-buffs-other-skill-effects) EDIT - skill + skill = penalty WP/AP/HP/Stamina/Xp … 3wp + (3wp + penalty), 3wp + (3wp + penalty of #) + (3wp + penalty of #+@) - skill + skill = skill + 50% of skill - 50% penalty of range, accuracy … * * * - skill + skill + skill = 100%skill + 50%skill + skill10% - adding skills with [downgrade skills](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/why-the-new-rf-doesnt-do-it-for-me/8331/14) ![](https://canada1.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/uploads/snapshotgames/original/2X/4/4df355440b6631e5c7e76b8216588acac7a0ed17.jpeg) EDIT: Fixed translation and inaccuracy To block for the 2 and 3 tier of skill (5-7 levelup) for a multiclass Assault/Assault = + 2 new perk in 2 class branch ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 1:13pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/25 "2020-03-02T13:13:56Z")
Ah, ok, I understand now. So you can basically spend WPs to go “over the limit” with diminishing results. ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 1:38pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/26 "2020-03-02T13:38:22Z")
As a reality check, given the setting I would say it could be double that without challenging plausibility. To put it in context, even 60 tiles a turn is action hero, not superhero territory. I obviously agree with the second point: I think it is a good idea to allow the player to go on the offensive from the first turn, instead of forcing one or two turns of move + OW, but allowing the player to move to any point on the map (and back!) in the first turn is too much. I’m not sure about 30 as the magic number though. First because beyond (what IMO is) an arbitrary reality check, there doesn’t seem to be. anything special to recommend it, and second because ideally it should be divisible by 4. And then there is the question of how it would work, i.e. can I dash for say, 20 tiles at the cost of 1 AP and 4 WP, but from then on I can only move 10 tiles, or am I limited to moving 7 tiles (30/4 rounded down) per AP at all times. I prefer the first option. ---
**Author:** ![Vipre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/838e76/32.png) [@Vipre](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Vipre)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/27 "2020-03-02T13:46:45Z")
> [@VOLAND](#): > > As a reality check, given the setting I would say it could be double that without challenging plausibility. To put it in context, even 60 tiles a turn is action hero, not superhero territory. Easily. Given map sizes however best to probably make it 40-48. ---
**Author:** ![Yokes](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/yokes/32/310_2.png) [@Yokes](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Yokes)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:01pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/28 "2020-03-02T14:01:50Z")
> [@Vipre](#): > > best to probably make it 40-48. That is still whole map in one turn. Vehicles should move faster then, or soldier should be faster than vehicle? > [@VOLAND](#): > > And then there is the question of how it would work, i.e. can I dash for say, 20 tiles at the cost of 1 AP and 4 WP, but from then on I can only move 10 tiles, or am I limited to moving 7 tiles (30/4 rounded down) per AP at all times. Dash shouldn’t be separate usable skill. It should only modify other “skill/attribute” - move action for current turn. So you spend WP and gain additional speed for that turn. No AP cost, no additional UI to set destination, no problem with spotting enemies during dashing, no additional uses in that turn. Btw. What you describe as division by 4 is usually solved like that: 1st AP = 7 tiles, 2nd AP = 8 tiles (15 total), 3rd AP = 7 tiles (22 total), 4rd AP = 8 tiles (30 total). ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 2:43pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/29 "2020-03-02T14:43:31Z")
> [@Yokes](#): > > Dash shouldn’t be separate usable skill. It should only modify other “skill/attribute” - move action for current turn. So you spend WP and gain additional speed for that turn. No AP cost, no additional UI to set destination, no problem with spotting enemies during dashing, no additional uses in that turn. It does have its advantages, but IMO there is one huge drawback: if the WP cost is reasonable (ie keep it at 4WP), you will just activate it every turn when you want to move. If the question is “do I want to move faster?” the answer is easy: “of course!” Conversly, if you make the WP cost unreasonable (e.g. get to move 6-8 tiles more at the price of 1WP per tile) dashing becomes just very unattractive to use. Of course, if you plan to make all skill use residual in a “realism” mod that might work. ---
**Author:** ![Yokes](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/yokes/32/310_2.png) [@Yokes](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Yokes)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 3:13pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/30 "2020-03-02T15:13:15Z")
I panned to make it cost 2 WP. Soldiers would usually start with 10+ WP so it would be usable on 5+ turns without replenishing WP from various sources, if you won’t spend WP on other skills. And in my variation of the game WP would be a lot harder to regain without sacrificing whole turn (Recover ability) - for example no WP gains from enemy kills, also no skills which grant WP to the whole team. That would make typical Assault faster than any other class for big part of the combat, unless he would use more combat oriented skills that cost WP. But I won’t describe everything here, because it would require writing about many other balancing elements to make above plan working. First of all this is not place for it, and secondly, I don’t have my excel file with all balance changes with me so I can’t recall everything from memory. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/31 "2020-03-02T16:13:38Z")
> [@Yokes](#): > > But I won’t describe everything here, because it would require writing about many other balancing elements to make above plan working. Yeah, that’s the thing - it can work depending on how everything else is set up, but in the current system it would just mean start every turn by activating dash. ---
**Author:** ![Omega](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/omega/32/2414_2.png) [@Omega](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Omega)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/32 "2020-03-02T17:36:03Z")
> [@Yokes](#): > > But I won’t describe everything here, because it would require writing about many other balancing elements to make above plan working. First of all this is not place for it, and secondly, I don’t have my excel file with all balance changes with me so I can’t recall everything from memory. > [@Yokes](#): > > I panned to make it cost 2 WP What a terrible idea. This game has so many useless or broken items/abilities and you have the time to ask for more player activity nerfs? It’s damn hard to motivate player to finish the game because unplayable atm cause of the last AS nerf and you wanna make it more harder? Stop with such a bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Yokes](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/yokes/32/310_2.png) [@Yokes](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Yokes)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 6:08pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/33 "2020-03-02T18:08:00Z")
> [@Omega](#): > > Stop with such a bullshit. I suppose that you may be Omega, but looks like not Alpha. 🙂 Do you think I plan to nerf only the player? ---
**Author:** ![Omega](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/omega/32/2414_2.png) [@Omega](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Omega)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 6:48pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/34 "2020-03-02T18:48:26Z")
> [@Yokes](#): > > Do you think I plan to nerf only the player? Of course. What else? What are you asking for? “Dash” really doesn’t need any more changes. Just look at other skills that can be improved. ---
**Author:** ![noStas](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/nostas/32/2001_2.png) [@noStas](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/noStas)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/35 "2020-03-02T19:14:41Z")
> [@Yokes](#): > > I planned to make it cost 2 WP. Maybe someone already wrote about this, but have you tried (if possible) that the Dash skill contained in the passive +6 speed and in the active (as realized by developers) spurt of 3 tiles in 2WP? ---
**Author:** ![Yokes](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/yokes/32/310_2.png) [@Yokes](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Yokes)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 7:35pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/36 "2020-03-02T19:35:32Z")
I plan to nerf aliens too. > [@noStas](#): > > have you tried I haven’t ---
**Author:** ![SpiteAndMalice](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/spiteandmalice/32/39_2.png) [@SpiteAndMalice](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/SpiteAndMalice)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2020, 8:38pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/37 "2020-03-02T20:38:36Z")
Out of interest - What’s the maximum speed that different Pandorans, and for that matter other faction soldiers move it? Is it comparable to the player’s soldiers’ speed? ---
**Author:** ![Yokes](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/yokes/32/310_2.png) [@Yokes](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/Yokes)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 2:46pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/38 "2020-03-03T14:46:10Z")
Definitely not. Aliens don’t have more than 30 speed. Enemy soldiers - I’m not sure about their usage of skills, but probably they can use skills the same way player can (maybe they have limit to use each skill 1 per turn?). ---
**Author:** ![mcarver2000](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/mcarver2000/32/2435_2.png) [@mcarver2000](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/mcarver2000)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 3:05pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/39 "2020-03-03T15:05:34Z")
With frenzy? ---
**Author:** ![VOLAND](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/c6cbf5/32.png) [@VOLAND](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/VOLAND)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 3:17pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/40 "2020-03-03T15:17:53Z")
Pandorans can move pretty fast with frenzy, but nothing comparable to what the player can do. Human assault class opponents can dash, but only a little bit. And they never to do it in a way that makes sense anyway, at least in my experience. More than once I have seen them dash towards my troops _after_ shooting at them. The thing is, PP operatives with average stats also don’t run _that_ much. It’s the specialized speed builds where things go really crazy, and the enemies have nothing like that. ---
**Author:** ![mcarver2000](https://yyz2.discourse-cdn.com/flex036/user_avatar/forums.snapshotgames.com/mcarver2000/32/2435_2.png) [@mcarver2000](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/u/mcarver2000)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2020, 3:48pm UTC](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574/41 "2020-03-03T15:48:50Z")
I’ve seen faction assault use 2 dashes to reach the civilian that needs to be rescued and kills them on their first turn. No way to save the civilian… no way no how. [Previous page](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.snapshotgames.com/t/about-reducing-mobility/9574.md?page=3)