Will the world scale? If so, how much?

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  • Last Post 20 September 2017
Dark_Ansem posted this 19 July 2017

I'm wondering if PP will fall into the XCOM pitfall, so similar to Elder Scrolls Oblivion: does the world scale constantly with you? So, like in Oblivion, you end up fighting bandits in Daedric armor all the time? And in XCOM eventually all enemies have plasma weapons?

 

Or there is a limit to scaling?

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woah77 posted this 19 July 2017

They've explained that enemies will evolve over time. Will they "scale"? I don't know, but it sounds like the virus will try to vary tactics and evolutions based upon your own strategies.

Dark_Ansem posted this 19 July 2017

So we are bound to ever-growing difficulty?

CaptainGeneral posted this 19 July 2017

woah77 said:They've explained that enemies will evolve over time. Will they "scale"? I don't know, but it sounds like the virus will try to vary tactics and evolutions based upon your own strategies.

For the mist enemies that sounded really interesting if they can get them to evolve and adapt to your play. Sounds quite challenging from an AI dev point of view. As for the more humanoid factions I'd prefer they were more a strategic threat with increased attacks and regularity than the scaling that Ansem described. 

 

Dark_Ansem posted this 19 July 2017

I should clarify that I am talking about difficulty - not variety.

CaptainGeneral posted this 19 July 2017

Dark_Ansem said:

I should clarify that I am talking about difficulty - not variety.

So are we I think.

 

Ped posted this 20 July 2017

Dark_Ansem said:

I'm wondering if PP will fall into the XCOM pitfall

I'm not sure it's a pitfall? If the enemies didn't get tougher, then the game would just get easier and easier as you progressed, which means if you beat the first mission few missions then you can basically walk the rest of the game. 

I suppose difficulty could be increased in other ways such as more enemies instead of tougher ones, but if you can one shot anything and a single grenade could wipe out a large batch of enemies then the game would be too easy. 

I've found this on most of my XCOM playthroughs, if you get through the first few missions the rest is plain sailing, if anything I don't think XCOM cranks up the difficulty enough. 

Dark_Ansem posted this 20 July 2017

It's ridiculous if they only keep stronger and stronger equally throughout the world for every mission. Some of them should cap to certain tiers of equipment and strength.

woah77 posted this 20 July 2017

Well we know the humans will get more and more advanced tech as the game progresses as well. So I'm unsure what you mean by scaling, but you won't be fighting the same guys with the same equipment halfway through the game as you were at the start.

Dark_Ansem posted this 20 July 2017

woah77 said:

Well we know the humans will get more and more advanced tech as the game progresses as well. So I'm unsure what you mean by scaling, but you won't be fighting the same guys with the same equipment halfway through the game as you were at the start.

Scaling in terms of difficulty = progressive difficulty

 

woah77 posted this 20 July 2017

Yes, that is a confirmed part of the game.

Dark_Ansem posted this 20 July 2017

Too bad.

Ped posted this 20 July 2017

A thematic reason for the aliens becoming stronger could simply be the longer they are exposed to the mist the more mutated/stronger they become. 

Also in XCOM you generally get a choice of going on Easy/Moderate missions, which as you progress become moderate/difficult then difficult/very difficult. In this way you can choose to some degree how difficult the game is in the short term, however constantly picking the easy option will make the game slightly more difficult in the long run, or at least you have to weigh up the possible advantages of additional items/xp against getting your guys killed. 

But the game should get more challenging the longer it goes on surely?

Dark_Ansem posted this 20 July 2017

Within reason. It doesn't make sense if the entire world becomes challenging

woah77 posted this 20 July 2017

Why not? Everyone else is fighting the same virus mutations you are. They're all going to grow and adapt along with you.

Ped posted this 20 July 2017

ok, fair enough, I think I see what you're saying. Have a different rate of development around globe (possibly depending on exposure to mist) or in terms of other havens if they get hit hard near the start of the game they may operate 'a few levels' lower than those that have done well from the start so would present less of a challenge. 

assuming we can choose where on the globe to strike you could choose to hit a less developed area to give your troops a relative breather and a few easy wins while you maybe waited for some key guys to recover etc

CaptainGeneral posted this 20 July 2017

Well Phoenix point is an organization that's presumably been inactive for some time until your cell is activated, so the more you push against the mist and it's denizens the more they try to counter you. Same with dealing with the other factions. Honestly if the game doesn't get more difficult the longer it goes on then they've done something terribly wrong.

Dark_Ansem posted this 20 July 2017

@Ped correct. I want to avoid the Oblivion syndrome, where every bandit lategame had endgame stuff. Exploitable and ridiculolus.

CaptainGeneral posted this 21 July 2017

Dark_Ansem said:@Ped correct. I want to avoid the Oblivion syndrome, where every bandit lategame had endgame stuff. Exploitable and ridiculolus

 

Well there's strategic and tactical difficulty, both of which should increase in a game like this unless you want an 'I win' button. Given the nature of the game, strategic difficulty would be my preferred focus especially if you are initially a small nuisance that is mostly ignored in the early game. The aliens and hostile factions take notice of you and counter you with more frequency and determination rather than having their troops more kitted out, but this depends on whether they themselves have tech trees and research. The oblivion-like scaling is more likely in the case of the latter. 

woah77 posted this 21 July 2017

The real question is: Will the enemy scale exactly when I do or will it scale in reaction and independently? What has been said so far suggests that the enemies are going to developing all on their own, and that their "scaling" will be independent of your currently equipment/power level.

Dark_Ansem posted this 29 July 2017

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LevelScaling

 

Look at the Oblivion entry.

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